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2020 Off-season Discussion Thread

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I don't know, man.  I just can't get over the thought that the WR position is hopeless for us. 

Randall Cobb just had his best season in 4 years.  Career best yards per reception.  Was 172 yards short of a thousand yard season. 

It's actually Cobb who got me convinced Rodgers was not playing up to what he was capable of.  So many times he was open.  So many times Todgers didn't throw to him. 

 

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4 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

I don't know, man.  I just can't get over the thought that the WR position is hopeless for us. 

Randall Cobb just had his best season in 4 years.  Career best yards per reception.  Was 172 yards short of a thousand yard season. 

It's actually Cobb who got me convinced Rodgers was not playing up to what he was capable of.  So many times he was open.  So many times Todgers didn't throw to him. 

 

The narrative that Rodgers isn't a beast when he has multiple weapons isn't true though. We've seen Rodgers when he has weapons (2009-2011), so give the guy weapons. Rodgers dipped when our WR core went to ****. Had an MVP year in 2014 with Jordy and Cobb and a rookie Adams (which frankly wasn't even a deep WR core), then 2015 happened with losing Jordy and Ted "replaced" him with James Jones off the street. That year we had James Jones and a slumping 2nd-year Adams. 2016 Rodgers was back to 40 freaking Touchdowns and 7 picks! Why? Because he finally had some semblance of a WR core again, Jordy was back, Adams took off as a legit No. 2 and Cobb was healthy (plus Cookie in the 2nd half of the year). Finally a core of weapons again... Then 2017 was a wash because Rodgers got hurt and suddenly it was 2018. 

2018 brought us Adams, Cobb (who was banged up most of the year), and.......nothing. We did the same in 2019, minus Cobb. People around here are finally realizing that relying on a group of Day 3 draft picks plus a fringe-roster player like Geronimo Allison was a pretty dumbass idea. Give 12 some weapons and just sit back and watch. The end. 

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6 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

The narrative that Rodgers isn't a beast when he has multiple weapons isn't true though. We've seen Rodgers when he has weapons (2009-2011), so give the guy weapons. Rodgers dipped when our WR core went to ****. Had an MVP year in 2014 with Jordy and Cobb and a rookie Adams (which frankly wasn't even a deep WR core), then 2015 happened with losing Jordy and Ted "replaced" him with James Jones off the street. That year we had James Jones and a slumping 2nd-year Adams. 2016 Rodgers was back to 40 freaking Touchdowns and 7 picks! Why? Because he finally had some semblance of a WR core again, Jordy was back, Adams took off as a legit No. 2 and Cobb was healthy (plus Cookie in the 2nd half of the year). Finally a core of weapons again... Then 2017 was a wash because Rodgers got hurt and suddenly it was 2018. 

2018 brought us Adams, Cobb (who was banged up most of the year), and.......nothing. We did the same in 2019, minus Cobb. People around here are finally realizing that relying on a group of Day 3 draft picks plus a fringe-roster player like Geronimo Allison was a pretty dumbass idea. Give 12 some weapons and just sit back and watch. The end. 

Ultimately we're in a really bad spot if our 30 million per QB needs an elite player at every position on offense in order to be a standout. You're gonna have a really hard time fielding both and a good defense.

Poor receiver play wasn't the reason we scored 0 points in the first half of our elimination game. ****ty QB play was.

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13 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Ultimately we're in a really bad spot if our 30 million per QB needs an elite player at every position on offense in order to be a standout. You're gonna have a really hard time fielding both and a good defense.

Poor receiver play wasn't the reason we scored 0 points in the first half of our elimination game. ****ty QB play was.

Nah, you just gotta make the right moves and you can't miss a lot like we've been doing lately, especially in the draft. Our biggest miss recently was losing out on Robinson and getting Graham as a consolation prize.  That was after we squandered the Jared Cook situation. Mixture of bad decision making and luck (assuming Robinson had a similar offer from us and simply chose the Bears). 

On defense, you can't continue to miss on guys like Oren Burks, Montravious Adams, Vince Biegel, Josh Jones, Josh Jackson, etc. That's 5 basically Day 2 picks (Biegel was the first pick of Day 3) since 2017, who have absolutely bottomed out for GB to date. I'm not even talking about Kyler Fackrell level (serviceable back-up type role player). I'm talking about "can't even see the field" results.  That's the reason why you can't "field a defense." At least 2, hell even 1, of those guys has to hit every once in a while. 

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On 2/5/2020 at 3:10 AM, Gypsy1027 said:

For my 1/4 cents' worth, I think the Right Tackle position may play out like this--Pick Austin Jackson, OT, USC if they can get him at the end of Round One. Pick Marcus Norman, OT, South Florida, if they have to wait until Round Three. And they can always resign Bulaga for at least two/three years and wait until next year to draft an OT like Liam Eichenberg of Notre Dame, Jaylen Mayfield of Michigan or even Cole Van Lanen of the Badgers. But it's just my 1/4 cents worth.

 

Another option could be drafting Tyler Biadasz-C, Shane Lemieux-G and or Darryl Williams-C/G.  Any two out those 3, kick Turner out to RT or keep him there and resign Jared Veldheer for RT.  

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Would we be interested in two Viking players that might be cap causalities, Everson Griffen and Xavier Rhodes?

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5 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

I just can't get over the thought

Outpost31 summed up in 7 words
 

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27 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

Nah, you just gotta make the right moves and you can't miss a lot like we've been doing lately, especially in the draft. Our biggest miss recently was losing out on Robinson and getting Graham as a consolation prize.  That was after we squandered the Jared Cook situation. Mixture of bad decision making and luck (assuming Robinson had a similar offer from us and simply chose the Bears). 

On defense, you can't continue to miss on guys like Oren Burks, Montravious Adams, Vince Biegel, Josh Jones, Josh Jackson, etc. That's 5 basically Day 2 picks (Biegel was the first pick of Day 3) since 2017, who have absolutely bottomed out for GB to date. I'm not even talking about Kyler Fackrell level (serviceable back-up type role player). I'm talking about "can't even see the field" results.  That's the reason why you can't "field a defense." At least 2, hell even 1, of those guys has to hit every once in a while. 

So what you're saying is that literally everything has to go right? Doesn't seem difficult at all.

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27 minutes ago, jleisher said:

Would we be interested in two Viking players that might be cap causalities, Everson Griffen and Xavier Rhodes?

I like both of them...but I'd guess that Griffen would cost more than what we want to pay to an EDGE whom we hope would be EDGE #4.

Rhodes intrigues me.  I know many on this board and on the Vikes board feel like he is done.  I don't share that viewpoint.  I think he could be a third corner and maybe even a safety.  Dude can hit.  But he also hits when the ball is in the air.  But yah, I'd be interested in him.  If we don't bring back Tramon, I do like the idea of him in the secondary.

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I would like to see the Packers sign a few of these free agents and why.

#1.  Javon Hargrave DL, Steelers are low on $, Hargrave would take over for Lancaster as the starter.  83.4 PFF (4yrs/$14m/50% guan, cap hit $9,8m)

#2.  Beau Allen NT, run stopper to spell Clark or Lowry when needed.  72.6 PFF (3yrs/$6m/30% guan, cap hit $4.5m)

#3.  Nick Kwiatkoski ILB, young promising ILB, 72.6 PFF (4yrs/$6m/50% guan, cap hit $4.2m)

#4.  Jack Conklin RT, would hold down the RT spot of the next 4-6 years.  78 PFF (4yrs/$13m/40% guan, cap hit $9.1m)

#5.  Jimmie Ward DB, Packers need a 3rd CB.  With King getting hurt, need a solid #3.  84.2 PFF (4yrs/$8m/40% guan, cap hit $5.6m)

#6.  Austin Hooper TE, would solve the TE problem, but the other problem is getting Rodgers to throw to him.  78.3 PFF (4yrs/$10m/45%guan, cap hit $7m)

#7.  Robby Anderson WR, young solid WR, would come in and be the true #2 WR, slide Lazard down to #3 or #4.  68.6 PFF (4yrs/$9m/40% guan, cap hit $6.3m)

#8.  Danny Amendola WR, veteran WR that is still good and knows how to get open.  71.5 PFF (2yrs/$8m/40% guan. cap hit $6.4m)

I would be fricken happy with Hargrave, Conklin and Kwiatoski in green and gold.

 

Any rumors on WR coach?

Edited by jleisher
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3 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

So what you're saying is that literally everything has to go right? Doesn't seem difficult at all.

I didnt say that, I said you have to hit on a few of those. Hell I'd settle for decent backups. Burks and Adams downright suck. Jackson seems out of place, Jones is litterally out of football, etc. Those are huge misses with premium picks. Hard to sustain success that way, especially when you're primarily a draft and develop team. 

Rodgers doesnt need Adams, Beckham and Green. He just needs Adams and another guy who's not an overachieving UDFA or Day 3 pick who can't run routes. Just invest a little in the offensive skill positions, that's it. 

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Wouldn't mind Conklin and Amendola, Amendola is a competitive A-hole who you hate when he doesn't play for you, but when he is your guy,  A+.  Conklin is a quality RT and brings some nasty.

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19 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

premium picks

actually, 3rd rounders have a very low success rate. Historically, late 3rd's have about 70%-75% chance of being worse than Fackrell, including about 65% who are 'downright-suck' players (& 35-40% can't even get on the field).  

even late-2nd's are about 50% bust rate, including about 20% that are bad and 30% that can't get on the field. 

 

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9 hours ago, TransientTexan said:

actually, 3rd rounders have a very low success rate. Historically, late 3rd's have about 70%-75% chance of being worse than Fackrell, including about 65% who are 'downright-suck' players (& 35-40% can't even get on the field).  

even late-2nd's are about 50% bust rate, including about 20% that are bad and 30% that can't get on the field. 

 

Not sure where you got the stats, but let's assume that accurate, that 75% of late 3rd round picks essentially bust or never become even quality backups. Then why are we so adverse to trading those picks for guys like Emmanuel Sanders, Tony Gonzalez, Marshawn Lynch etc? Can't have it both ways, either those picks are valuable hence the reason not to deal them or statistically it make makes a lot more sense to trade them for proven NFL players whenever you get the chance. Right now, our recent history has been to not trade those picks, then still strike out when we use them. 

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