Bearerofnews Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 (edited) 33 minutes ago, N4L said: You haven't said 'he is a system qb' but you've stated repeatedly that 'he benefits greatly from the system' 'he wouldn't be the same player without the system' etc etc which ya know... is the definition of a system qb Not really. A system qb implies a qb to be someone who can only produce in a said system until proven otherwise. My stance is, switch Mahomes to any of the 31 other offenses, his numbers would dip. Take any of the other 31 starting qbs and put them in KC's offense and their numbers would increase. This is obviously all conjecture, as there is no truly tangible way to prove that. But i believe, amongst knowledged people, that is an accepted reality. What the medium is between the 2 parallels is hard to say. Meaning put Baker in KC and Mahomes in Cleveland, what would the variance be compared to it is now. Edited March 10, 2020 by Bearerofnews Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMT Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 (edited) Agg% - System QB - Most QB Friendly system EVER - BEST QB WHISPERER OF ALL TIIIIIME Keep fighting the good fight my guy Edited March 10, 2020 by MagicMT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 1 hour ago, MagicMT said: Agg% - System QB - Most QB Friendly system EVER - BEST QB WHISPERER OF ALL TIIIIIME Keep fighting the good fight my guy Keep being basic fam that way doesn't require a lot of thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolsurebro Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) I read 5 and a half pages and the general thing I am sensing is that some people are bitter to the magic that is Mahomes. (And not to add on to the pile-on that is suffocating you, Bearer... Sorry.) He's hands down the best QB in the league. You can argue a ferrari is only a fast car because of it's engine, but at the end of the day? It's a ferrari. Edited March 11, 2020 by lolsurebro 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 On 3/11/2020 at 10:18 AM, lolsurebro said: I read 5 and a half pages and the general thing I am sensing is that some people are bitter to the magic that is Mahomes. (And not to add on to the pile-on that is suffocating you, Bearer... Sorry.) He's hands down the best QB in the league. You can argue a ferrari is only a fast car because of it's engine, but at the end of the day? It's a ferrari. It's a mustang on a perfectly paved road vs other mustangs, cameros and dodge chargers on bumpy roads. This league hasnt seen a ferrari at QB yet... not even close. But it's coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowMotorGuy Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 Patrick Mahomeboy has the brain of Tom Brady and the athleticism of Randall Cunningham rolled into one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mse326 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 On 3/10/2020 at 2:04 AM, Bearerofnews said: Warner kinda proved his worth by doing it on 2 diff teams, with diff coaches and diff personnel. When a coach and the offense so heavily contribute. Its like putting a RB behind the best oline by far and nothing thinking their is an imbalance in production vs all the other rbs who arent behind the same oline. If Reid's offense is that good why aren't all the teams running it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 6 hours ago, mse326 said: If Reid's offense is that good why aren't all the teams running it? I mean 85 bears ran a 46 defense.. why didnt alot more defenses. My guess is comfort with what they know, lack of knowledge, complacency, some run variations of it that have deciples from his coaching tree, personnel, identity, idk honestly i ask myself same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolsurebro Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 13 hours ago, Bearerofnews said: It's a mustang on a perfectly paved road vs other mustangs, cameros and dodge chargers on bumpy roads. This league hasnt seen a ferrari at QB yet... not even close. But it's coming. You can apply that logic to literally anything. You can't make a cake without the batter, so to speak. When you argue that he's only a top QB because of talent around him, you're arguing hyperbole which is grounded in what-if's and could-be's, but ultimately doesn't matter because it is what it is. Pat Mahomes is the top QB in the league, for whatever reason you do or don't like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 2 hours ago, lolsurebro said: You can apply that logic to literally anything. You can't make a cake without the batter, so to speak. When you argue that he's only a top QB because of talent around him, you're arguing hyperbole which is grounded in what-if's and could-be's, but ultimately doesn't matter because it is what it is. Pat Mahomes is the top QB in the league, for whatever reason you do or don't like. I have him #2, so its not like im calling the kid a bum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyBacall Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 6 hours ago, Bearerofnews said: I mean 85 bears ran a 46 defense.. why didnt alot more defenses. My guess is comfort with what they know, lack of knowledge, complacency, some run variations of it that have deciples from his coaching tree, personnel, identity, idk honestly i ask myself same thing. @mse326 is right, this doesn’t make sense. Especially the “lack of knowledge” part. It’s not like the template isn’t there for the taking. You can literally study every snap of film Reid has ever been a part of. If it’s so successful, and makes any QB better it (automatically, it seems), then why wouldn’t every team adopt those principles and designs? He’s not doing anything extraordinary. There’s no patent on this stuff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 5 hours ago, SmittyBacall said: @mse326 is right, this doesn’t make sense. Especially the “lack of knowledge” part. It’s not like the template isn’t there for the taking. You can literally study every snap of film Reid has ever been a part of. If it’s so successful, and makes any QB better it (automatically, it seems), then why wouldn’t every team adopt those principles and designs? He’s not doing anything extraordinary. There’s no patent on this stuff. It doesn't work like that in sports. Why isnt every coach doing what Bilichick does. There is attention to details, wrinkles, constant modification and multiple variations of things Reid does. All the shift and inbalances presnap. Also having fast players helps, its not that easy to immulate schemes and systems... otherwises we'd see it for all sports for all successful systems. Why didn't everyone run the triangle offense in the NBA, why didnt more defenses run the 3-4 when Pit was forever the elite defense in the league running it, or as i said the 46. Why didnt more teams run west coast offense when welsh was running it or air coryell, etc, etc. Its not that easy to change entire offensive philosophies and most coaches are stubborn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mse326 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 13 hours ago, Bearerofnews said: I mean 85 bears ran a 46 defense.. why didnt alot more defenses. My guess is comfort with what they know, lack of knowledge, complacency, some run variations of it that have deciples from his coaching tree, personnel, identity, idk honestly i ask myself same thing. Actually its because that was a new defense and was figured out pretty quickly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mse326 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Bearerofnews said: Why didn't everyone run the triangle offense in the NBA Because no one thought the triangle was this magical system. They thought, and still do think, it was the specific players. This directly contradicts the point you are trying to make. 1 hour ago, Bearerofnews said: why didnt more defenses run the 3-4 when Pit was forever the elite defense They did, just not as well. 1 hour ago, Bearerofnews said: Why didnt more teams run west coast offense when welsh was running it or air coryell, Again they did. It started spreading relatively quickly especially by his assistants. And yet Reid has been a HC for 2 decades and has one of the most prolific trees in the game and it isn't happening. Why? Why did Childress fail so badly? Why is Pederson not running the same offense in Philly? Or Rivera or McDermot? Or really anyone, as was pointed out anyone can watch every snap of every game for a long time. And you can't talk about wrinkles because it isn't like everyone runs the offense and he just does it better. Many aren't running an offense even remotely like it. 1 hour ago, Bearerofnews said: Why isnt every coach doing what Bilichick does Because what he does is change up his schemes to fit his team. That what has made him so great. That is why he has been able to sustain through all the coaching losses. Why he can have years where he relies on defense and running and others on passing. Why sometimes the passing is more downfield and others are more short and medium timing. There may be fixtures at the core but he more than any other coach schemes for his team, not simply what he wants. And it is complete philosophy type changes, not little wrinkles. This is the worst example you could have brought up. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 32 minutes ago, mse326 said: Because no one thought the triangle was this magical system. They thought, and still do think, it was the specific players. This directly contradicts the point you are trying to make. Beg to differ. Nobody else ran it the same because they werent Phil. Sure, Phil ran it with all time players. But the system helped their production and efficiency. 32 minutes ago, mse326 said: They did, just not as well. Alot more teams stayed in a 4-3 base, despite Pit having so much success with alot of different players. The cogs were Hampton and Troy. But outside that they were having all kinds of system driven success. 32 minutes ago, mse326 said: Again they did. It started spreading relatively quickly especially by his assistants. And yet Reid has been a HC for 2 decades and has one of the most prolific trees in the game and it isn't happening. Why? Why did Childress fail so badly? Why is Pederson not running the same offense in Philly? Or Rivera or McDermot? Or really anyone, as was pointed out anyone can watch every snap of every game for a long time. And you can't talk about wrinkles because it isn't like everyone runs the offense and he just does it better. Many aren't running an offense even remotely like it. Pederson and Mcvay did and both made it to the superbowl with marginal QB talent. Tho i think Goff is much better than he gets credit for. But their offenses had success run mere variations of it with inferior skilled players and less complexity. As is Nagy. Who had more success in 2018. But again lessor personnel. Reid has completely evolved his offense every year in KC since 2015. He continues to progressionally add completely new presnap looks, motions, shifts, formations.. the route concepts. Dont be surprised if you see more and more teams adding smaller speedsters and using more of Reid's magical system. 32 minutes ago, mse326 said: Because what he does is change up his schemes to fit his team. That what has made him so great. That is why he has been able to sustain through all the coaching losses. Why he can have years where he relies on defense and running and others on passing. Why sometimes the passing is more downfield and others are more short and medium timing. There may be fixtures at the core but he more than any other coach schemes for his team, not simply what he wants. And it is complete philosophy type changes, not little wrinkles. This is the worst example you could have brought up. Not really.. i mean you are the one who assumed implementing someones offense, concepts, philosophies, personnel dictated scheme was so easy that everyone should be mimicking it. Same thing here with Bill, just a different tier to it. That's my whole point... its not easy to just mimmick successful systems and expect same results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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