Pat Mahomes couldn’t read defenses

[Chiefer]

12 hours ago, ET80 said:

If the statement fits...

Two years starting, one league MVP, one Super Bowl win, one Super Bowl MVP.

If you call Pat Mahomes anything other than the best QB in the game right now, you're are in fact a "hater".

He’s only been playing football 8 years, full time QB for 7

Imagine him in his tenth year or 20th

Edited March 8, 2020 by Chiefer

[Bearerofnews]

56 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

What is this system of Reid’s exactly? And when, prior to Mahomes, has it ever been referred to as the most QB friendly system ever? And when was Reid called the GOAT QB whisperer before Mahomes got there?

Like, specifically. 

The same system that put Matt Moore, who was retired for what 3 years and hasnt started for 4, was a school teacher, came off the bench, vs 2 playoff teams and had a 100 passer rating. Same system that producing a coaching tree of some of the brightest offensive minds, same system that made an avg journeyman like Alex Smith a probowler. A whisperer when he was molding as the QB coach of Brett Favre. When he was making Eagles a top 10 scoring offense multiple times when they have well below avg talent.

You are either flat out trolling or very oblivious to the landscape of the NFL and it's history.

[Bearerofnews]

22 minutes ago, N4L said:

This post would hold a lot more water if you were able to actually admit the reality of what Pat mahomes is. 

You can't criticize everyone for not knowing football, while simultaneously holding the absolutely ludicrous position that mahomes is somehow not one of the top 5 QBs in football 

It makes you look extremely foolish and invalidates most opinions that you have, because mahomes is so clearly and blatantly the best QB in football right now. Does he benefit from having Andy Reid call plays and having the most speed at WR in the NFL? You bet your ****ing *** he does. That doesn't somehow erase the generational talent that he has or the absolutely magical manner in which he conducts himself on the football field. 

If you were starting a franchise and you took anyone other than mahomes right now, you're an idiot 

When did i say he wasnt top 5. Id even put him 2 behind Wilson. Situational variances and weighted avgs matter.  When fans continue being ignorant and thinking all situations are created equally and therefore all players can be compared equally, it shows a very dense demographic of fans.  Yes because Mahomes is younger, you would start a franchise with him. I remember just a couple of years ago at the insane level of hyperbole and exuberance everyone was saying about Rodgers and now he has quickly fallen from grace.  Things can change quickly.

[N4L]

14 minutes ago, Bearerofnews said:

When did i say he wasnt top 5. Id even put him 2 behind Wilson. Situational variances and weighted avgs matter.  When fans continue being ignorant and thinking all situations are created equally and therefore all players can be compared equally, it shows a very dense demographic of fans.  Yes because Mahomes is younger, you would start a franchise with him. I remember just a couple of years ago at the insane level of hyperbole and exuberance everyone was saying about Rodgers and now he has quickly fallen from grace.  Things can change quickly.

I almost excluded the top 5 comment because I knew you'd say "wHeN dId I sAy ThAt". Your posts very clearly insinuate that you do not believe him to be an elite QB. Elite by most standards is reserved for the top 2-5 guys at the absolute most

So just for clarification sake, you're saying he's the second best QB in the league while simultaneously saying hes a product of the system??

Again, he is absolutely in the best place for his skills to be utilized to the fullest, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't still be elite elsewhere

At what point will you be willing to admit you're wrong? If he sustains this pace for another 2 years, will you start to accept reality? Because it really doesn't feel like you will ever do anything but criticize, which is why people call you a hater

[Bearerofnews]

14 minutes ago, N4L said:

I almost excluded the top 5 comment because I knew you'd say "wHeN dId I sAy ThAt". Your posts very clearly insinuate that you do not believe him to be an elite QB. Elite by most standards is reserved for the top 2-5 guys at the absolute most

So just for clarification sake, you're saying he's the second best QB in the league while simultaneously saying hes a product of the system??

Again, he is absolutely in the best place for his skills to be utilized to the fullest, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't still be elite elsewhere

At what point will you be willing to admit you're wrong? If he sustains this pace for another 2 years, will you start to accept reality? Because it really doesn't feel like you will ever do anything but criticize, which is why people call you a hater

He is top 2 because his pure skill set is obvious and his production is the best past 2 years. He benefits greatly from the system which inflates his stats.  Guys have elite talent, but alot of time the system they are in doesnt give them the opportunity to produce at an elite level. Mahomes stats are by-product of his skill and that system. I will never be wrong about that. That system isnt like any of the other 31 in the league. His production would dip with any other team and with declined production, stature would change. 

[TDTimes]

Not to take anything away from Mahomes, because he's had a brilliant start to his career -- but Aaron Rodgers said much the same thing early in his career.  It takes a long time to analyze NFL defenses; any QB in his first 2 seasons simply isn't going to be able to do it on the fly.  I shouldn't go as far as saying he's stating the obvious, but he basically is.

[Kip Smithers]

3 hours ago, Bearerofnews said:

The same system that put Matt Moore, who was retired for what 3 years and hasnt started for 4, was a school teacher, came off the bench, vs 2 playoff teams and had a 100 passer rating. Same system that producing a coaching tree of some of the brightest offensive minds, same system that made an avg journeyman like Alex Smith a probowler. A whisperer when he was molding as the QB coach of Brett Favre. When he was making Eagles a top 10 scoring offense multiple times when they have well below avg talent.

You are either flat out trolling or very oblivious to the landscape of the NFL and it's history.

You’re not even answering the question. You’re just referring to other guys who have had success under Reid and saying “seeeee, system”. You’re not pointing out any of the specifics, the concepts or examples of as to what makes the system successful. If you did that then you’d be taken more seriously. 

[Malik]

10 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

You’re not even answering the question. You’re just referring to other guys who have had success under Reid and saying “seeeee, system”. You’re not pointing out any of the specifics, the concepts or examples of as to what makes the system successful. If you did that then you’d be taken more seriously. 

"The system" is just whatever the offensive personnel Reid currently has honestly. Andy Reid smartly putting his differnetly skilled QBs in the best position to succeed doesn't make each QB less or more talented. It just means Andy Reid is smart.

[ILoveTheVikings]

I heard he didn't even start throwing a football until his rookie year.

[Danger]

[SteelKing728]

On 3/6/2020 at 10:01 PM, Yin-Yang said:

Mahomes is a good quarterback 

Woah. Get these crazy hottakes outta here!

[ET80]

10 hours ago, Bearerofnews said:

So what does that make Lamar. Who led the league in tds, passer rating, unanimous MVP, all pro. So what happens if ge wins the SB and SB mvp next year. Is he now the best. Or do we just move the goal post when it suits us. 

We'll cross this bridge when we get to it, because it's an unknown. Lamar Jackson could win a SB next year, or he could completely regress - both options are on the table, so we can't really make a judgement. So why talk about the hypothetical outside of covering your tracks?

I'm talking about right now, I'll worry about tomorrow... tomorrow.

10 hours ago, Bearerofnews said:

Using realistic criticism isnt being a hater.

NOTHING about your criticism is remotely realistic. I can acknowledge a good argument when I see one, but I've failed to see a good argument from you in any capacity on this particular subject.

10 hours ago, Bearerofnews said:

Its being honest and not overtaken by insane hyperbole that happens every year. 

Insane hyperbole exists when people are calling him the GOAT - I can get that. Calling him the best QB in football right now is NOT insane hyperbole... it's the flat out truth.

[ET80]

6 hours ago, Chiefer said:

He’s only been playing football 8 years, full time QB for 7

Imagine him in his tenth year or 20th

You eventually reach a point of diminishing returns, or a plateau - which we're probably close to. Everything will come together and peak, and you'll have the football player we currently see.

[RedGold]

10 hours ago, Bearerofnews said:

But i'm not going to keep ramming a stonewall with some of you, because you want to try to prove me wrong... which you never will... if you can, I INVITE IT openly. 

There’s a reason for that.   And it’s not the one you’re thinking of 

[ET80]

11 hours ago, Bearerofnews said:

1. Does Mahomes miss alot of wide open deep throws - yes

2. Does Mahomes play for the greatest qb whisperer - yes

3. Does Mahomes play in the most qb friendly system ever - yes

4. Does this system inherently have alot more open targets readily available than any other offense - yes

5. Does Mahomes throw to less tightly covered targets than most other qbs - yes.

 

None of this is mutually exclusive in relation to Pat Mahomes as the top QB in the NFL. Everything you outline here could be true and you'd STILL be able to say "He's the best QB in football". 

(The "he's throwing to less tightly covered receivers" argument is the epitome of stupidity, BTW. That's the object of the passing game - throw to the open guy. That's football 101, why is he penalized for this? I don't criticize a RB for running into a hole, or a DE getting a free rush to get a sack, or a DB getting a pick on a ball thrown right to them, do we? So why are we trying to use this against Mahomes?)

NO QB does their work on an island. Brady has the greatest HC in NFL history, the 2nd best WR in NFL history, the best TE in NFL history, the best OL coach in NFL history, the best slot WR in NFL history, the 2nd best slot WR in NFL history - does that take away that Brady is the greatest QB of all time?

If it does, you're understanding of football is incredibly lacking.