(Polls) Rank/Choose the Top Tackles & Joe Thomas Says Wirfs is a Guard

[buno67]

12 hours ago, NateDawg said:

This really is a failed intelligence test. Smh I never understand this. 

its like you know, you literally know, and your agent knows you are going to be tested at the combine. it truly is an intelligence test cause you have to be a moron to fail the combine drug test

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 hour ago, buno67 said:

its like you know, you literally know, and your agent knows you are going to be tested at the combine. it truly is an intelligence test cause you have to be a moron to fail the combine drug test

And they also know, literally know, it’s not going to be a part of the next cba and is entirely irrelevant.

Dude can smoke weed all day every day and it doesn’t matter now.

[MWil23]

2 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

And they also know, literally know, it’s not going to be a part of the next cba and is entirely irrelevant.

Dude can smoke weed all day every day and it doesn’t matter now.

For suspensions and such absolutely.

From a draft slot standpoint, I respectfully strongly disagree. Many will still put stock in that and consider it when drafting him/how high. This isn’t a flawless prospect we are talking about either.

JMHO

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

2 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

For suspensions and such absolutely.

From a draft slot standpoint, I respectfully strongly disagree. Many will still put stock in that and consider it when drafting him/how high. This isn’t a flawless prospect we are talking about either.

JMHO

So what is the significance of it from a football perspective?
 

The only reason it was only ever relevant is because it could lead to suspensions.

[MWil23]

Just now, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

So what is the significance of it from a football perspective?
 

The only reason it was only ever relevant is because it could lead to suspensions.

The perception that you could be selecting someone super high and paying him millions of dollars when he may not take his physique or professionalism seriously, outdated stigma or not.

The dude is 365 and smoked weed knowing he’d be tested, and no one is going to convince me he’s serious about his body or willing to be a franchise LT until he proves it now.
 

What actual positive cane of that decision from a football standpoint? That’s my argument. Absolutely zero to gain. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

Just now, MWil23 said:

The perception that you could be selecting someone super high and paying him millions of dollars when he may not take his physique or professionalism seriously, outdated stigma or not.

then the issue is the outdated stigma and not the weed, no?

Just now, MWil23 said:

The dude is 365 and smoked weed knowing he’d be tested, and no one is going to convince me he’s serious about his body or willing to be a franchise LT until he proves it now.

right, but you had that feeling before this.  This didn’t exactly move the needle for you.

Just now, MWil23 said:

What actual positive cane of that decision from a football standpoint? That’s my argument. Absolutely zero to gain. 

Nothing positive comes from it, but that doesn’t mean it’s a negative either.  It’s a nonissue.  Why they even bothered to test at the combine this year is beyond me.

[MWil23]

1 minute ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

then the issue is the outdated stigma and not the weed, no?

Fill in the blank for weed here. While I wouldn’t do it, it shouldn’t factor into me getting a job by going out the night before an interview and having 1/2 a dozen drinks, catching an Uber home, and posting the pictures of alcohol and the time we were having on social media either, but there is a negative stigma and perception there. 

1 minute ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

right, but you had that feeling before this.  This didn’t exactly move the needle for you.

It’s just one more thing against him. If that’s Chase Young, it wouldn’t move the needle at all for me either in a negative way.

1 minute ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Nothing positive comes from it, but that doesn’t mean it’s a negative either.  It’s a nonissue.  Why they even bothered to test at the combine this year is beyond me.

Then they shouldn’t test tbh. Fair or not, I’d wager tons of GM pushed for it and will continue to do so.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

7 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Fill in the blank for weed here. While I wouldn’t do it, it shouldn’t factor into me getting a job by going out the night before an interview and having 1/2 a dozen drinks, catching an Uber home, and posting the pictures of alcohol and the time we were having on social media either, but there is a negative stigma and perception there. 

It’s funny you mention this because if he did this exact thing no one would care.  Players do this all the time I’m sure.

7 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

It’s just one more thing against him. If that’s Chase Young, it wouldn’t move the needle at all for me either in a negative way.

So you’re biases or lack thereof are what determine the relevance of the test?  Shouldn’t there be some consistency across the board?  I mean, either it matters or it doesn’t matter.  It can’t be “it only matters if I already don’t like the prospect.  If I do like them, it’s nbd.”

7 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Then they shouldn’t test tbh. Fair or not, I’d wager tons of GM pushed for it and will continue to do so.

They should definitely keep testing, just not for weed.  
 

I can’t imagine what the benefit for GM’s would be.  I feel like they know half of these kids smoke occasionally and they know who the “problem childs” are.  The NCAA will continue to test. The Josh Gordon’s of the world will still be known.

As I’ve said in other threads, I understood the value until now.  See who can keep their poop in a group and stay eligible to play.  But that’s not a thing any longer.

[MWil23]

8 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

So you’re biases or lack thereof are what determine the relevance of the test?  Shouldn’t there be some consistency across the board?  I mean, either it matters or it doesn’t matter.  It can’t be “it only matters if I already don’t like the prospect.  If I do like them, it’s nbd.”

Quote

Chase Young is arguably the best player in the draft and looks like a Greek god. Becton is 365 with plenty of weight to lose. The argument is more or less whether he takes anything seriously pertaining to his body. That’s why it matters/the point I’m making.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

11 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Chase Young is arguably the best player in the draft and looks like a Greek god. Becton is 365 with plenty of weight to lose. The argument is more or less whether he takes anything seriously pertaining to his body. That’s why it matters/the point I’m making.

Right, but you had that same feeling before hand.

Just using the limited data we have from the combine, the weed test is what it is, the 5.1 at his size would indicate he’s been spending some time running and the 23 reps is respectable, so he’s spent some time in the weight room. So what does any of that prove?

And I’ve fully been in the “he needs to drop 20-30 pounds” camp from the beginning, but he’s not a giant slob, he carries that weight well and his movement skills back that up.  I just think he’d be a damned monster at 330.
 

If you want to honestly know how serious he takes his body, you talk to the training staff at Louisville.  They know who works at it and who doesn’t. 

[big poppa pump]

I get that Ferentz is his coach, and he is advocating for one of his own.  I get that he is now trying to get one of his prized prospects paid, by heaping all kinds of praise.  However, Ferentz strikes me as a "no nonsense" kinda dude, that isn't going to sugarcoat things, or overly hype someone just because.....

highlights of article

He can play LT (no doubt in his mind)

Athleticism is off the charts

Still learning how to play (room to grow)

Excelled in pro style zone blocking scheme

 

Don't really care what Mind thinks....if this is our pick...I'm a happy camper!!!!

 

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/04/iowa-coach-kirk-ferentz-freakish-tristan-wirfs-could-easily-play-lt-for-browns-or-whoever-lands-him-in-nfl-draft.html

 

[Mind Character]

37 minutes ago, big poppa pump said:

Don't really care what Mind thinks....if this is our pick...I'm a happy camper!!!!

 

Just to name of few:

1. Bob McGinn's polling of numerous GMs, scouts around the league see Tristan Wirfs as a Guard
2. Daniel Jeremiah sees Wirfs as a great Guard and a projection as Tackle with Issues
3. Charley Casserley's polling of GM and Scout opinions around the league shows that a lot of execs and scouts see Wirfs as a Guard
4. Geoff Schwartz sees Wirfs as a Guard
5. John Greco sees Wirfs as a Guard
6. Joe Thomas when he talked in depth about the Tackles classified Wirfs as a Guard 3 times and referred to why
7. Mind Character on FF has been "Wirfs is a Guard" since last Fall

Attributing the belief that "Wirfs is a Guard" simply to me so that it is easier to dismiss that idea overlooks and ignores 1.) Why people see Wirfs as Guard based on real issues seen on film, and 2.) That there are many thoughtful and expert evaluators that see "Wirfs as a Guard" for sound reasons.

You can feel good about Kirk Ferentz' opinion as it confirms your feelings, but it doesn't take into account the real evaluation-specific logic behind why there's a whole lot of people out there that see Wirfs as a Guard.

I may have been the loudest, most persistent, and earliest person at least on these forums to say it, but it other similar expert opinions mean you can't just ignore it and have a completely informed opinion.

IMO, the only reason to feel good about the pick if it is Wirfs is because we have Bill Callahan as a coach, and if one coach can get Wirfs to realize his Tackle potential it would be Callahan. Even still the natural feel for the game at that position and instinctual play traits for Tackle require things that Wirfs likely isn't going to be able to acquire no matter the coaching.

 

[big poppa pump]

48 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

 

Just to name of few:

1. Bob McGinn's polling of numerous GMs, scouts around the league see Tristan Wirfs as a Guard
2. Daniel Jeremiah sees Wirfs as a great Guard and a projection as Tackle with Issues
3. Charley Casserley's polling of GM and Scout opinions around the league shows that a lot of execs and scouts see Wirfs as a Guard
4. Geoff Schwartz sees Wirfs as a Guard
5. John Greco sees Wirfs as a Guard
6. Joe Thomas when he talked in depth about the Tackles classified Wirfs as a Guard 3 times and referred to why
7. Mind Character on FF has been "Wirfs is a Guard" since last Fall

Attributing the belief that "Wirfs is a Guard" simply to me so that it is easier to dismiss that idea overlooks and ignores 1.) Why people see Wirfs as Guard based on real issues seen on film, and 2.) That there are many thoughtful and expert evaluators that see "Wirfs as a Guard" for sound reasons.

You can feel good about Kirk Ferentz' opinion as it confirms your feelings, but it doesn't take into account the real evaluation-specific logic behind why there's a whole lot of people out there that see Wirfs as a Guard.

I may have been the loudest, most persistent, and earliest person at least on these forums to say it, but it other similar expert opinions mean you can't just ignore it and have a completely informed opinion.

IMO, the only reason to feel good about the pick if it is Wirfs is because we have Bill Callahan as a coach, and if one coach can get Wirfs to realize his Tackle potential it would be Callahan. Even still the natural feel for the game at that position and instinctual play traits for Tackle require things that Wirfs likely isn't going to be able to acquire no matter the coaching.

 

Most of the scouting reports that I see on him say that he may best be suited as a Guard or RT (FOR NOW) but that his athleticism, and ability to be coached up will allow him to excel as a LT at the next level.  There is a reason that many consider him to be OL #1.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

It’s my opinion a guy plays guard when he doesn’t have the feet/athleticism to play tackle.  I’m not sure that really applies to Wirfs.

Height/length is another reason guys end up inside.  6’2 is viable for a guard, but not many can pull it off at tackle.  Again, doesn’t really apply to Wirfs.

Wirfs is physically a monster and has prototypical size for the position.  I think he has more than a punchers chance at succeeding at tackle.  If not?  Cool, you have a guy who people seem to think is an all pro caliber G prospect.

I also think it’s odd to think a guy is completely incapable of playing one spot on the OL but a savant prospect at another.  The job is pretty similar, it’s blocking the guy you’re assigned to block.  If you have the strength to hold up inside, and the feet to keep up outside, I’m not sure why you couldn’t play either guard or tackle spot effectively.  I realize these guys are greats, but Larry Allen, Mathews, Ogden, etc all played multiple positions and were good at it.  Hell even Bitonio apparently did just fine at tackle 2 years ago in the summer when they thought he might be the LT (but Corbett wasn’t ready to play G).  If you can block well, you can block well imo.

He’s not my first choice as I do think he’s riskier as a tackle (which is what we need) than others, but I wouldn’t be mad in the least bit if we took him.

[Mind Character]

18 minutes ago, big poppa pump said:

but that his athleticism, and ability to be coached up will allow him to excel as a LT at the next level.  There is a reason that many consider him to be OL #1.

In the public draftnik media and scouting community, as well as non-public community it's clearly a consensus that Tristan Wirfs has top 2 if not 1 OLineman Traits and Potential based off those traits.

However, I don't think it's accurate to say that "many" of those people see him as OT1; OG1 probably. Most consensus is around Andrew Thomas and Jedrick WIlls Jr. as OT1/OL1 with the next larger group of opinions in terms of quality being those that see Mekhi Becton as either having the biggest upside or see him as OT1. 

Surprisingly even to me, the smallest group of opinion consensus based on all media, draft analyst, and draftnik hub reports seems to be evaluating Wirfs as OT1.

And the reason that is because more so than Wills, Thomas, or even Becton it takes evaluators more faith to believe that Wirfs will fix his Tackle issues in technique and feel at the next level. He's more of a projection than the rest in a lot of people's minds.

We'll know soon what people think of Wirfs as a Tackle, but I think he either goes top 10 as a Guard or he falls some b/c of his deficiencies at Tackle. We'll know soon enough.