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Jags trade Foles to Bears for 4th round pick

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11 hours ago, .Buzz said:

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You guys don't really think he is your QB of the future do you?

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2 hours ago, fortdetroit said:

You guys don't really think he is your QB of the future do you?

Never said that.

But last year, he went 6-6 (way better than any other rookie), led rookies in Y/A, QB Rating, and TD/INT ratio. 

As far as being "the guy", I think it's more likely that he's a very good backup/fringe starter, but to label a guy after one season is pretty ridiculous. Especially given his horrendous supporting cast and an OL that was part of the reason Foles got benched as he was basically a statue back there and that wouldn't cut it.

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On 3/29/2020 at 12:26 PM, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

Aren’t we taking on a massive amount of the contract this year which is like 90+% of the remaining guarantees?

Maybe I misunderstood it, but I thought you ate something like 17mi this year,  and most of it would still carry to the Bears.

Are you guys really getting the guaranteed part of it? And just leaving the rest to the Bears?

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1 hour ago, kramxel said:

Maybe I misunderstood it, but I thought you ate something like 17mi this year,  and most of it would still carry to the Bears.

Are you guys really getting the guaranteed part of it? And just leaving the rest to the Bears?

We are eating something like that this year but after this year there is very little guarantee so they have a large number in front of them but not much they cant get out of

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On 3/28/2020 at 5:02 PM, fortdetroit said:

Well, Foles left KC because the Chiefs declined the 2nd year of his contract, making him a free agent.  i.e. they didn't want him anymore, at least at whatever salary he was scheduled to make.  I imagine he then took the backup job in Philly, because there wasn't a single team in the NFL that wanted him as a starter.  

Foles left Philly because the Jags gave him a starter job and a bunch of money.  Obviously.  And then the Jags dumped him a year later because they realized they made a huge mistake and their 6th round rookie who kinda stinks himself was actually better than Foles.

^^Not sure how either of those situations in totality are positives for Foles and prove he's a "great" QB as you said.  Situation 1: His team declined to bring him back the 2nd year of his contract, and he had to settle for a backup QB job as a free agent.  Situation 2: He actually did the huge payday and contract as a starter, but his team quickly realized that was a mistake and dumped him as soon as it was feasibly possible.  Awesome!  That proves he's a "great" QB.

A pro-Trubisky guy?  What the hell?  No.

Foles is better than Trubisky, maybe better than Minshew.  That doesn't make Foles great, or anything more than an NFL backup in an ideal world. 

Just because you can type things does not mean you understand the words you are typing.

  • Lets make this 100% clear. Foles had a bad contract in St Louis that allowed the Rams to hold him in purgatory.
    • I know it may be a secret with him finally being released on Hard Knocks and all.
  • Since that point he has had escalators and out clauses in his contract so no team can ever do that to him again.
  • If you don't remember all the scuttlebutt about the Foles contract after the Super Bowl then I can help your ignorance.

Actual story - Talented QB gets some playing time in KC, puts up a 100+ rating, and leads them to a pair of wins so they make the playoffs.

That QB and his agent made a smart deal that allowed him to capitalize on his performance by forcing the team to dump their excellent starter or to let Foles hit free agency.

When another player does this, they are savvy, When Foles does this its because EVERYONE HATES HIM BECAUSE 100+ rating 2-0 QBS REALLY SUCK!

 

If Foles is just a backup then there have been about 60 real QBs in the history of the NFL by your standards.

  • Unless you want to go with the Kerry Collins and Vinny Testaverde were great QBs angle. xD
  • You prefer Jay Cutler's pair of 10 win seasons to a Super Bowl ring, another playoff win, and a 117 rating miracle season?
    • I'd rather run the wishbone for 4 games and play Foles for 12 and the playoffs then lean on Cutler when it counts. (or just have a decent backup who can play some games)
  • Its hard to gauge what you think good or great or starter means.

Rivers is 60-68 with 2 playoff wins during Foles career. If he GREATER than Foles over that time period?

  • 2006-2011 Rivers was pretty great, but Foles could not really compete with him from High School and College.
  • Are 16 game season important when your team fails to win 10 games in 8 of 9 years?

Foles is one of the 20 best QBs in the league right now.

His moments of greatness (and there are many) have been far greater than all but a handful of other QBs currently playing.

Hes a massive upgrade over Trubisky's 3 years of play  (Trubisky could go somewhere and be Jim Plunkett or Rich Gannon, you never know for sure)

If you were to release Mack, Robinson, Fuller, and Jackson to make the Berars a bad team then adding Foles would be a bad move.

The Bears are adding him to a good team that needs his play and leadership to take the next step.

That step could be a wildcard round win or it could be more.

Any step above Trubiskys 8 wins and 83 rating  (more like 70 rating when not facing Detroit) will be a huge improvement.

That's worth a 4th round pick any day.

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I'm going to give you two NFL QBs. One is your reliable 16 game starter. The other can't stay healthy and is always getting hurt and had 2 years as a backup.

 

QB1 started every game for 16 straight years.

  • He made the playoffs in only 6 of his 16 seasons and he was 1-and-done in 4 of those 6 playoff years.
  • He put up lots of empty TD and passing yard stats on some mediocre or losing teams.
  • He only won more than 10 games in 3 of his 17 seasons.
  • He finished his career with a break even .500 record.
  • He also had 2 incredible playoff runs for the ages.

 

QB2 started 16 games twice in his 16(14) year career.

  • In this bum's first 2 seasons he only started 8 games and had a 2-6 record.
  • He had a magical year 3 with playoff success
  • In year 4 he was a bum again with a 3-6 record.
    • At this point he was just a fluke in year 3 but in the games that really matter if you are demented he was 5 wins against 12 losses
      • Fluke! Fluke! Fluke! xD
  • He put it all together in year 5 but was up and down in the playoffs and they lost in round 2.
  • In year 6 he has another good year on an absolutely loaded team that barely misses a perfect season. More playoff success!
  • In year 7 his numbers dip down closer to his first 4 years, the team has less success and he gets brutalized and injured in the playoffs.
  • In year 8 he gets healthy for week 1 but re-injures himself and misses the next 8 games.
    • When he comes back he puts up a pathetic loser worthless Nick Foles 2014  type season with team wins but bad stats.
    • WE HATES HIM for years 1,2,4,7,8 and ignore the glory of 3 and 6!
  • His team trades for a stud QB in the off-season to replace him.
  • In a really weird year 9 he starts 9 of 12 games and his backup starts 3 games.
    • He puts up a 100 or so rating in the real games but that's all on the talent around this system QB. The other guy put up a 120.
    • He gets benched in their 1-and-done playoff loss.
  • The next year he is in and out of the lineup and he struggles to an 8-5 record with stats that are a bit off.
  • The other guy's passing stats were worse but he won 2 of his 3 games and he's healthier, younger, and a dual threat.

Do you go with the backup now for the playoffs?

  • Injuries!
  • Up and down play!
  • Does not play 16 enough!
  • The starter has been injured twice, outplayed by his backup, and has only started every game in 3 of 10 seasons.
    • One of those was just a 9 game season so it doesn't really count.
  • He's a beat up 32 years old compared to a healthy 27 year old stud in his prime.

What happens next may be the best QB play in the history of mankind over the next 14 months.

  • 117 playoff rating
  • 112 regular season rating
  • 146 playoff rating
  • That is followed up with the closest a team has ever been to a 3-peat in the Super Bowl era.

 

Of course Nick Foles is not QB2 or anywhere near QB2's level. 

But this makes absolutely clear just how stupid the idea of dismissing a guy because

  • he was a backup
  • or could not stay healthy while 290 lb guys ran into him
  • or he shared the position with some incredible talent.
  • or some of his teams were a mess

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Flukes do exist.

Ken O'Brien 1985 is a good example. He never repeated that or even got close.

 

If 2013 was a fluke than what the hell is this?

jsgjekrkgke35.jpg

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Posted (edited)

A person with a brain looks at Foles 2013-2018 and sees a guy who's team was 27-7 when they relied on him over every game excluding St Louis.

  • This counts 2 long relief games (Philly v NY and KC vs Indy) it ignores the meaningless week 17 game after the 1 seed clincher in 2017

Its only 7 losses in 34 games so I can go into detail on them.

  • 2018 at Tampa Bay 27-21 loss
  • He played really well with a group limited by injuries.
    • Clement, Perkins, Aiken,  Smallwood and Gibson combined for 21 of his 48 targets
    • Agholor was 12 more (Ajayi 1)
    • And yes, a solitary professional target named Ertz was the other 13
  • 2014 at SF - This was an UGLY outing
    • 42.3 rating, multiple picks, way too much focus for 1 bad game
  • 2014 at Arizona - Up and down game with 412 yards passing 2 TDs and 2 picks
    • Josh Huff fumbled inside the Cardinals 10 yard line
    • Foles led the Eagles on a 2 minute drive but it stalled at the Cardinals 10
  • 2013 A terrible outing in Philly vs Dallas where he might have played while concussed
    • He missed the next game with a concussion.
  • 2013 A 48-30 blowout in Minnesota where he had
    • 428 yard passing
    • 32 yard rushing
    • 3 passing TDs and a pick
    • for a 103.5 rating
  • 2013 Playoffs - 26-24 loss -- He drove the Eagles down the filed late in the 4th quarter with just under 5 minutes to play.
    • He walked off the field for the last time with the lead.
    • The Saints got a long return and a face mask and started at midfield
      • They pushed forward for 8 runs and a 6 yard pass, bled the clock, and kicked the FG as time ran out.
      • A nobody CB had DeSean Jackson shut down for most of the game.
  • The turning point was Riley Cooper dropping a slant pass in his hands that could have gone for a score.

That's a 70 yard TD pass (at worst he gets caught around the 10 after 60+ yards) Foles still had a 100+ rating with this pathetic drop.

 

2018 Playoffs at New Orleans 

Foles had bad numbers in the 2018 playoffs.

He also had to play on the road in Chicago against that D and in the DOME where his team lost y 41 earlier in the year.

If I could change one throw from his career it would be the under-throw to Ertz in this game. The Eagles had the chance to go up 21-0

He just needed to lay it out another yard or two.

GIF_Lattimore.gif

Three other huge plays turned that game as well:

  • Brees fumbled, Graham recovered, but he dropped it and the Saints got it back. 
    • It could have been a scoop and score at best or the Eagles ball on the Saints 30 at worst if he holds on.
  • Taysom Hill did Taysom Hill things on a 4th down at the Saints 30 right after that Foles pick.
    • If they get stuffed its game over
  • Last but not least... Another Foles 2 minute drill but then ALSHON!
    • Are you kidding me with his pathetic WR effort?

SpectacularRepentantHoatzin-size_restric

 

 

That's it. Those are all of his losses out of 34 games and you think he's a bad QB? or not a starter?

I rest my case and the jury convicts you of not knowing anything about football.

 

Edited by SkippyX

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Cabin fever symptoms present in many ways, it seems. 

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12 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

A person with a brain looks at Foles 2013-2018 and sees a guy who's team was 27-7 when they relied on him over every game excluding St Louis.

  • This counts 2 long relief games (Philly v NY and KC vs Indy) it ignores the meaningless week 17 game after the 1 seed clincher in 2017

Its only 7 losses in 34 games so I can go into detail on them.

  • 2018 at Tampa Bay 27-21 loss
  • He played really well with a group limited by injuries.
    • Clement, Perkins, Aiken,  Smallwood and Gibson combined for 21 of his 48 targets
    • Agholor was 12 more (Ajayi 1)
    • And yes, a solitary professional target named Ertz was the other 13
  • 2014 at SF - This was an UGLY outing
    • 42.3 rating, multiple picks, way too much focus for 1 bad game
  • 2014 at Arizona - Up and down game with 412 yards passing 2 TDs and 2 picks
    • Josh Huff fumbled inside the Cardinals 10 yard line
    • Foles led the Eagles on a 2 minute drive but it stalled at the Cardinals 10
  • 2013 A terrible outing in Philly vs Dallas where he might have played while concussed
    • He missed the next game with a concussion.
  • 2013 A 48-30 blowout in Minnesota where he had
    • 428 yard passing
    • 32 yard rushing
    • 3 passing TDs and a pick
    • for a 103.5 rating
  • 2013 Playoffs - 26-24 loss -- He drove the Eagles down the filed late in the 4th quarter with just under 5 minutes to play.
    • He walked off the field for the last time with the lead.
    • The Saints got a long return and a face mask and started at midfield
      • They pushed forward for 8 runs and a 6 yard pass, bled the clock, and kicked the FG as time ran out.
      • A nobody CB had DeSean Jackson shut down for most of the game.
  • The turning point was Riley Cooper dropping a slant pass in his hands that could have gone for a score.

2018 Playoffs at New Orleans 

Foles had bad numbers in the 2018 playoffs.

He also had to play on the road in Chicago against that D and in the DOME where his team lost y 41 earlier in the year.

If I could change one throw from his career it would be the under-throw to Ertz in this game. The Eagles had the chance to go up 21-0

He just needed to lay it out another yard or two.

GIF_Lattimore.gif

Three other huge plays turned that game as well:

  • Brees fumbled, Graham recovered, but he dropped it and the Saints got it back. 
    • It could have been a scoop and score at best or the Eagles ball on the Saints 30 at worst if he holds on.
  • Taysom Hill did Taysom Hill things on a 4th down at the Saints 30 right after that Foles pick.
    • If they get stuffed its game over
  • Last but not least... Another Foles 2 minute drill but then ALSHON!
    • Are you kidding me with his pathetic WR effort?

SpectacularRepentantHoatzin-size_restric

 

 

That's it. Those are all of his losses out of 34 games and you think he's a bad QB? or not a starter?

I rest my case and the jury convicts you of not knowing anything about football.

 

tenor.gif

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Posted (edited)

Deleted something that was borderline a shot at a fanbase

Edited by SkippyX

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Posted (edited)

Andy Reid, Jeff Lurie, Howie Roseman, Doug Pederson, John DeFilippo, Frank Reich, and Matt Nagy vs Khan You Dig It, Jeff Fisher, Chip Kelly,  and .Buzz ...

That's a tough one Bob, I'm going to go with the guys with all those Super Bowl rings! *

 

* Yes, Nagy does not have a ring and Fisher got one as a puppy Bears assistant after he retired as a player in 1984.

 

Always remember, a 5 game fluke in 2017 got Jacksonville the lamest nickname in pro sports. xD

Edited by SkippyX

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32 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

Andy Reid, Jeff Lurie, Howie Roseman, Doug Pederson, John DeFilippo, Frank Reich, and Matt Nagy vs Khan You Dig It, Jeff Fisher, Chip Kelly,  and .Buzz ...

That's a tough one Bob, I'm going to go with the guys with all those Super Bowl rings! *

 

* Yes, Nagy does not have a ring and Fisher got one as a puppy Bears assistant after he retired as a player in 1984.

 

Always remember, a 5 game fluke in 2017 got Jacksonville the lamest nickname in pro sports. xD

Yep, that's why all of those guys either let him go, weren't interested/didn't go for him when available, or got him when they had no other choice and still contemplated between him and Andy Dalton.

You're right.

But continue trying to go off subject about the team I follow like that has any bearing whatsoever on this discussion.

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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

Yep, that's why all of those guys either let him go, weren't interested/didn't go for him when available, or got him when they had no other choice and still contemplated between him and Andy Dalton.

You're right.

But continue trying to go off subject about the team I follow like that has any bearing whatsoever on this discussion.

You think that 34 games is a fluke but I can't call 5 games a fluke. Do you have the sad feelings?

I get that you are a Foles expert after watching Foles throw 8 real passes before a collarbone injury and then watching him play like Minshew for 2 1/2 games after the collarbone injury.

 

Your pathetic premise above has been completely debunked.

Chip Kelly was given control (like BOB, I think ET can relate) and he made a series of idiotic moves

  • LeSean McCoy for Kiko Alanso
  • Cutting DJ
  • Foles and a 2nd for Bradford and his contract  (possibly the worst trade in my 40+ years as an Eagles fan)
    • Not because Foles is Joe Montana but because he is/was better than Bradford and it also cost a pick and it also ate salary cap

This somehow strengthens your argument to you?  really?

 

Jeff Fisher was fired following the season he cut Foles. He cut him because he got the #1 pick and took Goff. Keenum was also much cheaper.

  • We can dig into the specifics of Foels 8 playoff teams in 11 games vs Keenum facing 2 in 5 but that takes a willingness to have an open mind which you don't
  • I could also point to the 3 apples to apples division games and how each QB played, but its probably beyond you.

Fisher made the right decision to cut Foles and his salary to keep a cheaper vet to start a few games before throwing the #1 pick to the wolves.

The Rams and the Giants tossed Kurt Warner out like trash. Is he no longer a HoF QB because of this?

Is Fisher on the level of Coughlin? 

(trick question as we know jag fans look at guys who won SBs elsewhere and then hate them for not winning one in Jacksonville.)

 

If Foles was Keenum or Flacco, or Rivers, or Brees, or Dak wanting 35 million on your team and Minshew was dirt cheap would you rather keep that QB and stay in cap trouble or learn about the exciting young kid with some flair who will be entertaining even if you go 6-10 and set yourself up for the future?

Does it have to be that Shad Khan hates Nick Foles and is also godlike in his QB understanding (that would make last year very strange)

Or could this just be the best move for everyone without it having to be a death sentence for Nick Foles career?

 

I am done talking about how he left KC and Philly. Its all out there and its obvious. Get a clue or shut up about it.

Your disgusting hatred of a player who took a beating for your team is pathetic.

Edited by SkippyX

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