Redskins sign S Sean Davis 1 year deal

[MKnight82]

1 hour ago, MikeT14 said:

Okay I am moving on. I can't connect the dots and don't care to figure how to

Uh ya.  I blocked that poster awhile back.  Best decision ever. 

[Skins212689]

9 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

Uh ya.  I blocked that poster awhile back.  Best decision ever. 

Say you run away when challenge to bring Facts to the table. That's why you blocked the poster. 

[Woz]

Sean Smith signing in April? Smart as a low risk, medium reward hedge against Apke not panning out/feeling like they had to force a safety in the draft.

Cutting Sean Smith in September because Apke panned out? Smart as a no longer needed hedge.

 

Both positions can be celebrated/understood.

 

Now, if Smith had been targeted for Collins and had outplayed him, that would have been a much bigger problem/questionable decision.

[turtle28]

11 minutes ago, Woz said:

Sean Smith signing in April? Smart as a low risk, medium reward hedge against Apke not panning out/feeling like they had to force a safety in the draft.

Cutting Sean Smith in September because Apke panned out? Smart as a no longer needed hedge.

 

Both positions can be celebrated/understood.

 

Now, if Smith had been targeted for Collins and had outplayed him, that would have been a much bigger problem/questionable decision.

Who’s Sean Smith? The former corner for the Chiefs and Raiders?

Sir, I think you mean Sean Davis!

13 years and I got ya! I finally got ya making a mistake! Haha 😂 

[Woz]

One thing I noticed with the final roster: it's young.

Only two of the 53 are over 35 (and one of those is Alex Smith whom I have to assume is just being parked until they need a space and push him to IR; Davis is the other). Only four of the 53 are between 30 and 34, and two of those are the long snapper and punter (the other two are Kerrigan and Inman).

Of the remaining 47, 28 are below the age of 25. That's over half of the roster.

 

The good side of that is if you want to establish a culture in the locker room, you can do it somewhat easily because a bunch of these guys haven't known much else other than college. The bad side of that is you kind of have to expect some silly mistakes, especially in coverages.

 

NFL Experience (according to washingtonfootballteam.com roster):

• Rookies = 9 (Saahdiq Charles, Kamren Curl, Antonio Gandy-Golden, Antonio Gibson, Khaleke Hudson, Keith Ismael, James Smith-Williams, Isaiah Wright, Chase Young)
• 1 year exp = 1 (Bryce Love)
• 2 years exp = 9 (Kyle Allen, Marcus Baugh, Dwayne Haskins Jr., Cole Holcomb, Wes Martin, Terry McLaurin, Jimmy Moreland, Steven Sims Jr., Montez Sweat)
  
  19 of the 53 (~36%) have been in the NFL for a year or less (they credit all of the players for their "next" season when the new League Year rolls around). All of the 2020 class and most of the 2019 class made the final roster (Kelvin Harmon went on the NFI list because he got hurt training; Ross Pierschbacher and Jordan Brailford were waived but might be practice squad targets).
   
• 3 years exp = 7 (Troy Apke, Geron Christian Jr., Shaun Dion Hamilton, Danny Johnson, Daron Payne, Tim Settle, Greg Stroman)
• 4 years exp = 7 (Jonathan Allen, Ryan Anderson, J.D. McKissic, Fabian Moreau, Chase Roullier, David Sharpe, Jeremy Sprinkle)
  
  33 of the 53 (~62%) are effectively playing on their rookie contracts. The 2017 (5 of 10; JHC chose to sit out the season due to COVID) and 2018 (6 of 8 ) drafts are well represented with most either in starting roles or in major contributing positions. I cannot believe I would say that about a pair of Brice drafts, but for better or worse, they've hung around. Now, maybe that's due to them being cheap, but other cheap options were available that didn't make the cuts either (and UDFAs like Sims Jr., Wright, and Baugh got on the final 53).
   
• 5 years exp = 4 (Peyton Barber, Kendall Fuller, Matthew Ioannidis, Wes Schweitzer)
• 6 years exp = 6 (Landon Collins, Ronald Darby, Deshazor Everett, Cornelius Lucas, Brandon Scherff, Logan Thomas)
• 7 years exp = 5 (Dustin Hopkins, Dontrelle Inman, Morgan Moses, Kevin Pierre-Louis, Tress Way)
• 8 years exp = 1 (Jon Bostic)
• 10 years exp = 1 (Ryan Kerrigan)
• 11 years exp = 1 (Nick Sundberg)
• 16 years exp = 2 (Alex Smith, Thomas Davis Sr.)
  
  And this is where we see the failure of previous regime. Only Ioannidis, Everett, Scherff, Moses, and Kerrigan were home grown talents that have received a second contract. Fuller, Sundberg, and Way sort of count with Fuller having been drafted here before being traded and Sundberg & Way as UDFAs who were signed by other teams out of college but never saw the field before coming to Washington. Dustin Hopkins was a Buffalo draft pick in 2013, but never played for them due to injury and then losing out to Dan Carpenter, so maybe he qualifies for us. Still, I'm having to add our three specialists to make the numbers look adequate. That's not good.

 

The real question is: of the younger guys entering their fourth year, who gets another deal and who is allowed to walk? Allen received his fifth year option, so he's not eligible for free agency (and unless he demands crazy money, he's almost assuredly getting a new deal here). As for the others, Moreau and Roullier look like they've got solid chances to be retained (I would bet on them, barring injury, and even then, if it isn't catastrophic) while Anderson and Sprinkle are probably going to be allowed to find a new team. Sharpe has a chance, but given that he's on his fourth contract (3rd team, two stints with the Raiders), I would assume he's dead man walking. McKissic signed a two year deal in March.

[Woz]

1 hour ago, turtle28 said:

Who’s Sean Smith? The former corner for the Chiefs and Raiders?

Sir, I think you mean Sean Davis!

13 years and I got ya! I finally got ya making a mistake! Haha 😂 

[turtle28]

@Woz The previous regime definitely failed but you can’t just say that the previous organization failed Bc some former drafted players didn’t get a second contract. A lot of those players earned second contracts, it’s just Washington in some cases stupidly like with Kirk Cousins & Breeland decided not to re-sign them. 
 

Also, some of those guys they drafted got overpaid in FA and took those big deals to leave. Rivera traded away Dunbar & Trent Williams when he got here, the previous regime re-signed both to a second contract and wanted to keep both on their second contracts and even 3rd contract. Jordan Reed was re-signed to a second contract but was cut due to concussion issues. 
 

The previous regime chose not to re-sign Kirk Cousins bc he was Shanahan’s guy and Breeland - stupidly IMO - bc they didn’t like his attitude and he was mad at the money Josh Norman got and he didn’t handle that situation like a professional. 
 

Preston Smith, Jamison Crowder, Trent Murphy, Spencer Long and Ryan Grant were overpaid in most people’s eyes to leave, they were also replaced with draft picks and an UDFA and while it’s tbd, I think we may have upgraded over what we had in the previous regimes guys - except for the obvious Trent Williams & Kirk Cousins - so not re-signing them seems like the best move long term for the team.

Do you count Kendall Fuller as a second contract player? We drafted him and while we traded him away, he did choose to re-sign here on his second contract.

Edited September 6, 2020 by turtle28

[Woz]

34 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

@Woz The previous regime definitely failed but you can’t just say that the previous organization failed some former drafted players didn’t earn a second contract. Some of those guys they drafted got overpaid in FA and took those big deals to leave. Rivera traded away Dunbar & Trent Williams when he got here, the previous regime re-signed both to a second contract and wanted to keep both on their second contracts and even 3rd contract. Jordan Reed was re-signed to a second contract but was cut due to concussion issues. The previous regime chose not to re-sign Breeland - stupidly IMO - bc they didn’t like his attitude and he was mad at the money Josh Norman got and he didn’t handle that situation like a professional. Preston Smith, Jamison Crowder, Trent Murphy, Spencer Long and Ryan Grant were overpaid in most people’s eyes to leave, they were also replaced with draft picks and an UDFA and whirl it’s tbd but I think we may have upgraded over what we had in them, so not re-signing them seems like the best move long term for the team.

Do you count Kendall Fuller as a second contract player? We drafted him and while we traded him away, he did choose to re-sign here on his second contract.

I'm looking at the whole of the past decade. It has been a complete waste. I could rehash it again, but A) we all know the sins of the past, and B) it's 12:30 in the morning.

Trent had to go because Brice botched yet another contract situation (Williams didn't help his case either). Dunbar didn't seem to understand that Rivera was not going to be like the staffs of yore. He was made an example of.

Anyway, it's just depressing to think of. The core of the team shouldn't have to be a bunch of wet behind the ears kids (relatively speaking), but that's the only way Rivera is going to be able to turn the ship around. *shrugs* Maybe it pays off in the end. Maybe it doesn't. Time will tell.

[naptownskinsfan]

13 hours ago, Woz said:

And this is where we see the failure of previous regime. Only Ioannidis, Everett, Scherff, Moses, and Kerrigan were home grown talents that have received a second contract. Fuller, Sundberg, and Way sort of count with Fuller having been drafted here before being traded and Sundberg & Way as UDFAs who were signed by other teams out of college but never saw the field before coming to Washington. Dustin Hopkins was a Buffalo draft pick in 2013, but never played for them due to injury and then losing out to Dan Carpenter, so maybe he qualifies for us. Still, I'm having to add our three specialists to make the numbers look adequate. That's not good.

 

 

This is a great post but I want to comment on this one particular point.  I'm not sure I grade drafts and everything on receiving a second contract.  Ideally, we re-sign who is necessary, but as you see with the Patriots, they also aren't afraid to spend in free agency once in a while, like when they signed Stephon Gilmore. 

However, in the NFL it is so important to have the talent continually coming in because of how contracts and the cap works.  So I am not that concerned over who gets their second contract.  I am much more concerned with having good, cheap depth and the more players we let walk, the better, because we already have their replacement in-house.  

[naptownskinsfan]

13 hours ago, Woz said:

I'll tell Webby you want him banned for this.  

[Skins212689]

1 hour ago, naptownskinsfan said:

This is a great post but I want to comment on this one particular point.  I'm not sure I grade drafts and everything on receiving a second contract.  Ideally, we re-sign who is necessary, but as you see with the Patriots, they also aren't afraid to spend in free agency once in a while, like when they signed Stephon Gilmore. 

However, in the NFL it is so important to have the talent continually coming in because of how contracts and the cap works.  So I am not that concerned over who gets their second contract.  I am much more concerned with having good, cheap depth and the more players we let walk, the better, because we already have their replacement in-house.  

Are you guys who believe in this Cheap Method not seeing how Good/Great players aren't signing Cheap deals. They'd prefer to sit out of be traded. 

I hope Washington plans on keeping Payne, Allen, Sweat, and Young around for 2nd contracts. Also with room to keep Settle. 

You can't just replace that Talent with anybody in the draft or Free Agency. Those guy's a core to this Defense and what should keep them im a lot of games. 

Right now what's the plan to add Talent at the LT, LG, RT, C, WR2, RB, and TE position. Seems your saying the draft, am I correct? 

[naptownskinsfan]

6 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

Are you guys who believe in this Cheap Method not seeing how Good/Great players aren't signing Cheap deals. They'd prefer to sit out of be traded. 

I hope Washington plans on keeping Payne, Allen, Sweat, and Young around for 2nd contracts. Also with room to keep Settle. 

You can't just replace that Talent with anybody in the draft or Free Agency. Those guy's a core to this Defense and what should keep them im a lot of games. 

Right now what's the plan to add Talent at the LT, LG, RT, C, WR2, RB, and TE position. Seems your saying the draft, am I correct? 

If you extend Payne, Allen, Sweat, Young and Settle, who are you going to sign when the linebackers need help?  What about the secondary?  Same problem you mention at the bottom of my post, and explains why the draft is so important.  

You are also assuming that I am saying that I am not extending anyone.  That's not the case at all.  But this is a capped sport.  You can't keep everyone, and you need the talent pipeline like New England, Baltimore or Seattle has to be competitive year in and year out, and sometimes, you have to let someone walk away.  

[Skins212689]

4 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said:

If you extend Payne, Allen, Sweat, Young and Settle, who are you going to sign when the linebackers need help?  What about the secondary?  Same problem you mention at the bottom of my post, and explains why the draft is so important.  

You are also assuming that I am saying that I am not extending anyone.  That's not the case at all.  But this is a capped sport.  You can't keep everyone, and you need the talent pipeline like New England, Baltimore or Seattle has to be competitive year in and year out, and sometimes, you have to let someone walk away.  

Those Teams keep core guys though. Brady always had Rob and Eldeman. Ravens Defense has always been loaded. What has Seattle Won since breaking up the Legion of Boom? 

I understand you Might can't keep all those guys but trading Kerrigan and not retaining Alex Smith I think could've help save this team some money to sign a Allen and Payne in the near future. 

[naptownskinsfan]

1 minute ago, Skins212689 said:

Those Teams keep core guys though. Brady always had Rob and Eldeman. Ravens Defense has always been loaded. What has Seattle Won since breaking up the Legion of Boom? 

I understand you Might can't keep all those guys but trading Kerrigan and not retaining Alex Smith I think could've help save this team some money to sign a Allen and Payne in the near future. 

Seattle continues to win and puts themselves into situations where they can win one.  Pete Carroll's worst season since 2013 was 9-7, and he's gone 62-33-1 since 2013, and 5-5 in the playoffs.  How many teams would like to have that record over six years?  It's certainly better than most of the teams in the NFL over that time frame. 

You keep your core guys.  Absolutely.  But you also can't invest in the same guys at the same positions, which is why the LOB had to break up and should be a lesson to you wanting to extend all of our defensive linemen.  After the Super Bowl win, the Seahawks extended Sherman, Chancellor (twice) and Thomas, so they each got their second contract at one point with Seattle.  But as other players got close to free agency, changes had to happen, and having all of that money invested into one position eventually came to a head and they were released 

We are going to have that situation as Allen, Payne, Sweat and then Young come up for free agency.  We aren't going to be able to keep all of them and continue to field a competitive team year in and year out.  Tough decisions will need to be made as to who we keep, and maintaining flexibility for any top tier FA's who hit the market who can put us over the top when we are competitive.  

[turtle28]

44 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said:

If you extend Payne, Allen, Sweat, Young and Settle, who are you going to sign when the linebackers need help?  What about the secondary?  Same problem you mention at the bottom of my post, and explains why the draft is so important.  

You are also assuming that I am saying that I am not extending anyone.  That's not the case at all.  But this is a capped sport.  You can't keep everyone, and you need the talent pipeline like New England, Baltimore or Seattle has to be competitive year in and year out, and sometimes, you have to let someone walk away.  

Yeah, I started a topic in this a month ago or so. It’s likely that Ioannidis doesn’t get a 3rd contract (he’ll be 29 when this one is up & maybe Sweat doesn’t get a 2nd contract from us or Payne. 
 

They’re going to have tough decisions to make in 2023, Ioannidis & Payne’s contracts are up that year and then in 2024 Sweat’s contract is up. They’re going to have a tough decision whether they want to keep Payne or Sweat bc their contracts come up a year apart & Ioannidis & Payne the year before Sweat.

Most likely Ioannidis is the guy out bc he’ll be 29 when his contract is up & Payne will only be 26 then. Sweat vs Payne is a really tough one though.

Edited September 6, 2020 by turtle28