2020 NFL Draft: Discussion, Reports, Rumors, and Studies

[rampantjet]

1 minute ago, GangGreen420 said:

What’s up with Jeudys knee?

Not sure,  only heard about it yesterday,  hope we get more info.   This kind of sounds like zv team putting it out there to get him to drop 

[football guy]

2 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

 

I'm not typing it all out. This shows some of the good and bad that you're getting with him. This is actually a pro how good he is film breakdown. But it does show A LOT of his flaws you're getting as well.

First, for the sake of accuracy, Voch Lombardi is not a "pro" at film breakdown by any means. He's good and enjoyable. But let's not use him as gospel because he's far from it. 

Becton did everything that was asked of him in Louisville's wide zone scheme (a very similar variation of the scheme that we run). We already know that he can bend his knees. You can see it on tape, you saw it at the combine, and the narrator alluded to it in the video; it's a matter of doing it more consistently, but also need to keep in mind that Louisville has their tackles stand more vertically. Becton acknowledged that he needs to get down more and retained Duke Mayweather to help him with offseason workouts. He cited that he needs to improve his hand placement in pass protection, and he knows that sometimes he stood too high and it allowed defenders to get into his chest. He said how he needs to clean up his footwork a little bit and needs to be less reliant on his ability. He knows how to use his hands, just needs to become more consistent with it. Becton just turned 21. His flaws are extremely correctable with a few weeks of practice, and I'm sure he's already addressed a lot of them with Duke. What will take him more time is to correct are his punches and hand technique, as that often takes lineman a few years to master. All very normal things for a college offensive lineman that are correctable, and with coaching he'll become more consistent. I get wanting a perfect, technically sound player... I really do. But that should never be the focus. Just go back and look at Luke Joeckel. The guy was as sound as you can be technically, but what did he lack? Strength. He had no natural strength to his game, he lacked pop, and purely relied on movement and technique. He was the opposite who was in a pass set 100% of the time. What did that do for him? 

This is not Greg Robinson; effort has never been a question with him and Becton displays the kind of instincts and has a good football IQ that most collegian OL do not. One of the silver linings in Louisville's offense is that while it's more of a run-oriented offense, so it allowed us to watch Becton's football IQ on full display. Plays took longer to develop and he routinely showed his awareness by getting down field in an impressive manner, understanding the running lanes, and executing. Talent has never been a question with him. Pointing to a few technical flaws - which were literally what Louisville asked of him - is like splitting hairs, but it's not something one should feel is a significant risk. He's 6'7, 365... he's not going to look like a traditional tackle. Ever. That doesn't mean he isn't going to be an elite tackle. That doesn't mean he's "flawed" fundamentally. He uses his body correctly for a man his size, and that's what's most important. All players come in the league with some level of technical glitches and as long as they aren't glaring there should be little to worry about. 

Becton's one and only real concern is his commitment to the game. Is he going to be 100% in and try to do everything in his power to maintain a competitive advantage off the field (eating right, keeping his weight in check), or is he going to ignore it and try to get away with solely his god given ability? That's literally the only thing to worry about. The flagged drug test is a talking point and an additive to that same fundamental question. If someone were to say, "I'm a little weary of him because of the failed drug test and I question if he can keep the weight off" I can agree with that. I can also sympathize with someone who prefers other tackles. They're all uniquely talented and each provides different levels of strengths and weaknesses, but all these guys are technically flawed at this stage. You're splitting hairs on all of these guys, and if any of them were to not make it in the league it would likely have to do with underlying injury, character/IQ, really bad OL coaching, or trying to "force a square peg into a round hole" position wise if it becomes clear they simply are not a fit for that spot in the NFL (i.e. forcing Wirfs/Wills to play LT). 

 

Becton is a rare breed of player who has elite size, elite athleticism, and is an elite finisher. He could very well be up there as the best finisher in the NFL in a short period of time. He's scheme diverse and while he has some things to clean up, it's nothing that should reach the level of "red flag". His only legitimate red flag is his weight as it reflects to his commitment. If Becton keeps it in check, he will be one of the best tackles in the NFL. 

Edited April 22, 2020 by football guy

[Bobby816]

3 minutes ago, football guy said:

Oh so it's the opinion of this guy in the video. I understand now. 

First, for the sake of accuracy, Voch Lombardi is not a "pro" at film breakdown by any means. He's good and enjoyable. But let's not use him as gospel because he's far from it. 

Becton did everything that was asked of him in Louisville's wide zone scheme (a very similar variation of the scheme that we run). We already know that he can bend his knees. You can see it on tape, you saw it at the combine, and the narrator alluded to it in the video; it's a matter of doing it more consistently, but also need to keep in mind that Louisville has their tackles stand more vertically. Becton acknowledged that he needs to get down more and retained Duke Mayweather to help him with offseason workouts. He cited that he needs to improve his hand placement in pass protection, and he knows that sometimes he stood too high and it allowed defenders to get into his chest. He said how he needs to clean up his footwork a little bit and needs to be less reliant on his ability. He knows how to use his hands, just needs to become more consistent with it. Becton just turned 21. His flaws are extremely correctable with a few weeks of practice, and I'm sure he's already addressed a lot of them with Duke. What will take him more time is to correct are his punches and hand technique, as that often takes lineman a few years to master. All very normal things for a college offensive lineman that are correctable, and with coaching he'll become more consistent. I get wanting a perfect, technically sound player... I really do. But that should never be the focus. Just go back and look at Luke Joeckel. The guy was as sound as you can be technically, but what did he lack? Strength. He had no natural strength to his game, he lacked pop, and purely relied on movement and technique. He was the opposite who was in a pass set 100% of the time. What did that do for him? 

This is not Greg Robinson; effort has never been a question with him and Becton displays the kind of instincts and has a good football IQ that most collegian OL do not. One of the silver linings in Louisville's offense is that while it's more of a run-oriented offense, so it allowed us to watch Becton's football IQ on full display. Plays took longer to develop and he routinely showed his awareness by getting down field in an impressive manner, understanding the running lanes, and executing. Talent has never been a question with him. Pointing to a few technical flaws - which were literally what Louisville asked of him - is like splitting hairs, but it's not something one should feel is a significant risk. He's 6'7, 365... he's not going to look like a traditional tackle. Ever. That doesn't mean he isn't going to be an elite tackle. That doesn't mean he's "flawed" fundamentally. He uses his body correctly for a man his size, and that's what's most important. All players come in the league with some level of technical glitches and as long as they aren't glaring there should be little to worry about. 

Becton's one and only real concern is his commitment to the game. Is he going to be 100% in and try to do everything in his power to maintain a competitive advantage off the field (eating right, keeping his weight in check), or is he going to ignore it and try to get away with solely his god given ability? That's literally the only thing to worry about. The flagged drug test is a talking point and an additive to that same fundamental question. If someone were to say, "I'm a little weary of him because of the failed drug test and I question if he can keep the weight off" I can agree with that. I can also sympathize with someone who prefers other tackles. They're all uniquely talented and each provides different levels of strengths and weaknesses, but all these guys are technically flawed at this stage. You're splitting hairs on all of these guys, and if any of them were to not make it in the league it would likely have to do with underlying injury, character/IQ, really bad OL coaching, or trying to "force a square peg into a round hole" position wise if it becomes clear they simply are not a fit for that spot in the NFL (i.e. forcing Wirfs/Wills to play LT). 

 

Becton is a rare breed of player who has elite size, elite athleticism, and is an elite finisher. He could very well be up there as the best finisher in the NFL in a short period of time. He's scheme diverse and while he has some things to clean up, it's nothing that should reach the level of "red flag". His only legitimate red flag is his weight as it reflects to his commitment. If Becton keeps it in check, he will be one of the best tackles in the NFL. 

I assume this is your new name jetskiid?

[Rockice_8]

Becton is going to be very good.  Guys with that natural ability are extremely rare.  Worst case if he struggles in space at LT he should still be able to handle the RT spot given his elite run blocking, and even then God for bid he struggles there has the ability to kick inside at an elite level.  Worst case scenario I see is you get elite RG play.  Not that you want a RG with the 11 pick but he's unlikely to bust.  Dude is just too talented to completely fall on his face.  If Becton is there you take him without worry.

[SDotNova]

22 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

Becton is going to be very good.  Guys with that natural ability are extremely rare.  Worst case if he struggles in space at LT he should still be able to handle the RT spot given his elite run blocking, and even then God for bid he struggles there has the ability to kick inside at an elite level.  Worst case scenario I see is you get elite RG play.  Not that you want a RG with the 11 pick but he's unlikely to bust.  Dude is just too talented to completely fall on his face.  If Becton is there you take him without worry.

Agree. This is how I feel about Wirfs and Wills too. Worse case scenario for all three is they’re above average guards. Like you said, not what you want from pick 11. But we could do a lot worse than an above guard.

I feel the same with Jeudy and Lamb. They are good route runners and quick off the line. So if they bomb as outside WR (which what we would want), they can at least transition to solid slot guys. Not what we want from pick 11, but at least they’ll be productive. 

Edited April 22, 2020 by SDotNova

[football guy]

1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

I assume this is your new name jetskiid?

? 

[SDotNova]

Anyone have thoughts on the WRs that may become available after the draft? Rumors are Arizona could be shipping a WR. There’s the always present OBJ trade. 

Edited April 22, 2020 by SDotNova

[SDotNova]

Wouldn’t Becton be better served playing at 330-350? He supposedly has to force himself to eat to maintain that higher weight. He looks like he is country strong. Doesn’t seem like it’s weight room driven. 

[Dr.O]

6 minutes ago, SDotNova said:

Anyone have thoughts on the WRs that may become available after the draft? Rumors are Arizona could be shipping a WR. There’s the always present OBJ trade. 

I wouldn’t mind a move for Christian Kirk if available

[football guy]

24 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

Becton is going to be very good.  Guys with that natural ability are extremely rare.  Worst case if he struggles in space at LT he should still be able to handle the RT spot given his elite run blocking, and even then God for bid he struggles there has the ability to kick inside at an elite level.  Worst case scenario I see is you get elite RG play.  Not that you want a RG with the 11 pick but he's unlikely to bust.  Dude is just too talented to completely fall on his face.  If Becton is there you take him without worry.

This is how I feel. I can absolutely see why the team would take another player i.e. Andrew Thomas because he's more pro-ready, or Tristan Wirfs because he's even more elite in terms of his upside (hard to believe), or Jedrick Wills because he's a plug-and-play high level right tackle. But each is a different flavor: 

Becton - has the chance to be the Quenton Nelson of tackles. A total highlight reel player who has so much natural talent and size that it'll be difficult for opponents to get around or through him. Needs slight refinement but nothing that should make you concerned. The one thing that is a cause for concern is the weight. Will he make sure to keep it in check getting that signing bonus? Already showed he can play both tackle spots, and he was more natural on the left side than he was on right. 

Thomas - not a difference maker, but should be a steady tackle in the NFL. Not easy to come by guys who are rock-solid 10 year LTs in the NFL, and that's what Thomas should be. It's possible he's Ja'Wuan James, but ask yourself: if you can be guaranteed a more pro-ready Ju'Wuan James with the upside to be a Ronnie Stanley, are you saying no?

Wills - he should come in and be a very good right tackle. The concerns you have are injury- (how is his shoulder really) and versatility-related. The guy has never played a single snap on the left side since prior to high school. Has some really good traits, but if you're a team that puts a strong delinition between the left- and right-tackle, then he's going to be lower for you. Pure projection whether he can play on the leftside, and it's not nearly as easy as people think to make a guy move there; It's like going from being right handed to left. 

Wirfs - elite athlete who comes from a program that funnels OL talent into the NFL. He plays like a guard, but unlike Wills has experience on the left side. Multi-sport athlete who is a little raw, but like Becton just got the job done in college. He has zero limitations, only upside. It'll be up to the team to decide whether he can play on the left, but at the very least I think he's an All-Pro guard. More likely to play RT or RG than he is LT, but he's certainly not limited by any means. 

[GangGreen420]

11 minutes ago, SDotNova said:

Anyone have thoughts on the WRs that may become available after the draft? Rumors are Arizona could be shipping a WR. There’s the always present OBJ trade. 

Kirk could be a good fit. Fitz would need to move to a team ready to win. OBJ we should just stay away from. 

[football guy]

13 minutes ago, SDotNova said:

Wouldn’t Becton be better served playing at 330-350? He supposedly has to force himself to eat to maintain that higher weight. He looks like he is country strong. Doesn’t seem like it’s weight room driven. 

I think teams will want him to be around 350-355. Keep in mind the guy was 17% body fat at 364. That's well below average for offensive lineman, who are usually in the 20s. How much more weight can the guy lose? 350 would likely be around 15% body fat (not sure but I'm guestimating). 330 would be like playing at 10% body fat, which is unheard of for offensive lineman outside Tyron Smith. 

I think understanding his body type is part of the evaluation. He's just a uniquely, "big boned" guy. The issue you have is that if he doesn't keep his weight below 370, he has the frame to quickly balloon over 400. Any team that drafts him just needs to constantly reinforce this, prepare meals and food plans for him, etc. 

The guy looks like he was raised by these guys below (he plays like it too):

 

Edited April 22, 2020 by football guy

[SDotNova]

12 minutes ago, Dr.O said:

I wouldn’t mind a move for Christian Kirk if available

He would be an interesting addition. He’s mostly used in the slot but he’s had success on the outside as well. 

Edited April 22, 2020 by SDotNova

[doumeyer]

It seems like the closer we get to the draft some of our fellow members are getting very edgy. Be calm  and cool like me and wait to see how the draft works for us. Than if we not get the playmakers that Darnold, needs then I will explode.

[NJC33]

I was told the Giants are taking Wirfs, backup plan would be to trade down and target Thomas but that's unlikely.

EDIT: FWIW source is directly tied to the Mara's and has given me the right pick for a few years now.

Edited April 22, 2020 by NJC33