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diehardlionfan

The Lions, my view.

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1 hour ago, BarryTheBest said:

Everyone keeps side stepping that yes, all these issues happened in his first year.. Where is all this from year 2 after his admitted self reflection?

Slay and MP hashed it out and MP apologized. Slay even said year 2 was "good", yet the media only wants to harp on the first year stuff.

I don't know why you're giving a guy credit for personal growth when we haven't seen it. The player you're using as evidence just forced a trade and is currently talking an incredible amount of juice. The media isn't harping on first year stuff, they're harping on RIGHT NOW stuff. Slay is saying all of this stuff RIGHT NOW.

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It is true that perennial losers do have the microscope over this kind of thing I guess.

We weren't losing until Patricia took over.

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1 minute ago, nagahide13 said:

I don't know why you're giving a guy credit for personal growth when we haven't seen it. The player you're using as evidence just forced a trade and is currently talking an incredible amount of juice. The media isn't harping on first year stuff, they're harping on RIGHT NOW stuff. Slay is saying all of this stuff RIGHT NOW.

Sure, but, according to Slay himself, all of this happened during Patricia's first year. Slay even said that his second year with Patricia was "good". Slay also said that, after approaching Patricia (one year later), Patricia apologized.

He's saying it now because he left the team now.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Sure, but, according to Slay himself, all of this happened during Patricia's first year. Slay even said that his second year with Patricia was "good". Slay also said that, after approaching Patricia (one year later), Patricia apologized.

He's saying it now because he left the team now.

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“Our first year was rough,” Slay said. “Second year was good -- second year was no problem -- but our first year, it really destroyed our whole kind of like (relationship).”

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Slay told WJR his Lions teammates knew his departure was coming because "they already know I feel with me and Matty P...we don't see eye-to-eye."

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"I wouldn't say nothing," Slay replied. "I'd just go about my day. Honestly, I probably would feel nothing inside. I live my life, he lives his, so I don't have to deal with him."

I don't think the 2nd year was "good" despite his wording. I think it was "better". It clearly wasn't enough to overcome the divide he had caused.

I hope he turns it around and his change is legit. I don't really want him fired, I want him to be good.

 

*Had to complete quote. Original article I quoted missed part.

Edited by nagahide13

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I think it is also important to point out Slay respected him as a coach, but not as a person.  Do with this what you will.

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Yeah, absolutely. Slay said that the second year was "no problem", and that the "first year destroyed their friendship". That has to show some element of personal growth by Patricia in year two.

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2 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

My problem with Patricia is all of this supposed issue with Slay came year one when he was documented as showing up late for meetings and not being disciplined himself. He lost me early on with that.  I get some may like his personality both in the locker room and on this board, but I agree he just doesnt have the credibility to act that wayEarn the respect by winning.  And if you have issues with your best players, learn how to fix it rather than running them out of town for scraps.  It was pushed to the point of Slay speaking out publicly about it and although Slay deserves a lot of the blame for that, they couldnt control their guys long enough to get appropriate value for them.  

I agree with all of the moves.  I don't mind Big V but hate the contract.  I think Quinn structured it well so we can get out of it hopefully as I dont see him being worthy of top 10 RT money at any point. 

I liked the Collins, Shelton and Harmon moves but agree, I am skeptical with NE players when they leave NE because that means their cost has outgrown their value to the system.  

I actually like the Kearse signing, its one of those moves that NE makes where they get a guy with a skill set that fits our D and we can potentially exploit that skill on a reasonable contract.  

3 X Super Bowl Champion + 1x AFC Champion . DC for perennial top 10 defenses during his tenure. 

The guy did his job at a high level for an extended period of time. Even in his first year with us, we had a top 10 defense by the end of the year. 

Patricia has publicly acknowledged that he made some mistakes in year 1.This Slay situation, despite my position on Slay overreacting in ways, is a great example of learning on the job. To say that Patricia hasn't done anything to earn respect is underselling him in ways. He's been a key contributor on championship teams for a long time. 

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Just now, Karnage84 said:

3 X Super Bowl Champion + 1x AFC Champion . DC for perennial top 10 defenses during his tenure. 

The guy did his job at a high level for an extended period of time. Even in his first year with us, we had a top 10 defense by the end of the year. 

Patricia has publicly acknowledged that he made some mistakes in year 1.This Slay situation, despite my position on Slay overreacting in ways, is a great example of learning on the job. To say that Patricia hasn't done anything to earn respect is underselling him in ways. He's been a key contributor on championship teams for a long time. 

Justified or not, you don't really get credit as a coordinator. Fans and players both.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, nagahide13 said:

Justified or not, you don't really get credit as a coordinator. Fans and players both.

Eh. Just as we tend to criticize coordinators at times, I think we as fans should give them credit for the success of their units. To support this, former Patriots seem to speak glowingly about him as a coach. It has to account for something.

(Caldwell doesn't have a Super Bowl ring as a head coach, but he still has two Super Bowl rings, one as an assistant head coach and another as an offensive coordinator. He deserves credit for those as well.)

Edited by TL-TwoWinsAway
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1 minute ago, nagahide13 said:

Justified or not, you don't really get credit as a coordinator. Fans and players both.

Truth.  A lot of great coordinators arent great HCs.  So earn respect as a leader, not as a position coach/coord.  He came in right away and rubbed people he wrong way, and it was well documented that he didnt have the locker room.  Although it seems he is learning, and doing better, he still has a long ways to go to be respected as a HC. 

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1 minute ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Yeah, absolutely. Slay said that the second year was "no problem", and that the "first year destroyed their friendship". That has to show some element of personal growth by Patricia in year two.

Hope so. Has to be so. I don't think he's a terrible person like that PS fodder tweeted... I think he made a lot of mistakes and continues to make some. That growth implies some deficiencies, and we're all hoping he irons em out.

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1 minute ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Truth.  A lot of great coordinators arent great HCs.  So earn respect as a leader, not as a position coach/coord.  He came in right away and rubbed people he wrong way, and it was well documented that he didnt have the locker room.  Although it seems he is learning, and doing better, he still has a long ways to go to be respected as a HC. 

See, did Patricia really not have the locker room, or did he just not have a particular group of (key) players? It might sound like arguing for the sake of arguing, but I think it's an important distinction. I have to feel that we'd hear more rumbling from other individuals if he really was disliked by the majority of the players on the roster.

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1 hour ago, diehardlionfan said:

All very solid points. The trade idea would be awesome.

With Big V I really hope he works out. He’s better than Wagner because he’s good at something. I view it as high risk potentially high reward. I would’ve preferred a more proven option. 

I mean there are still some proven o-line players we can get after the draft or maybe make a trade for, if the team isn't satisfied after the draft.

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I have a feeling that they're gearing up for a big push in the running game. I could see two OGs drafted within the first 4 rounds and one of the top-tier RBs drafted (uncomfortably early for some).

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