The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Stidham and beyond...

[bucksavage1]

The argument with Carr is he worth the 40MM per year with always being a top 12-14 starter year in year out.
 

He’s performed better the last 2 weeks but will he hit the late season wall again? 

Can we get equal or better production by inputing another QB? Keep in mind without Carr, comes with additional savings that includes starters across the team

[bucksavage1]

16 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

How many big shots do you think a player takes before it is understandable that he grows alligator arms?  That throw is low or you go somewhere else.  If Carr is getting $40 per he should know that.  I agree he needs to make the catch but it is a ball that should not be thrown.  Also it should have been a personal foul but the refs did not want to throw another one after just giving us 15 yards on a very similar throw.  If Carr gets that ball at the numbers or lower he probably catches it.

We can’t blame any pass catcher for dropping a ball between two defenders in the middle. Especially in short quarters.

[BackinBlack]

12 hours ago, bucksavage1 said:

We can’t blame any pass catcher for dropping a ball between two defenders in the middle. Especially in short quarters.

Ok so Carr shouldn’t take shots at Wrs In close quarters. 
the Redzone is always tight.

 

the infamous 4th down throw away, everyone wanted Carr to throw to a covered waller… we’ve had this talk, in a game that was over I said waller would’ve been killed. And people said you gotta give him a shot. Game was over..

but game well with in reach, you don’t take the shot? 
seems weird logic to me lol. 

[big_palooka]

15 hours ago, bucksavage1 said:

Can we get equal or better production by inputing another QB?

What a vague question to ask. Depends on the QB. The simple answer is no. Have you seen the state of QB play in the NFL right now? 

You don't like Carr being a 12-14 range QB. How would you like this team with a QB who is in the 25-32 range?

There are 2 scenarios where Carr is not worth his contract:

1) He regresses completely, showing age and deterioration. 

2) The team is rebuilding and would do it around a younger QB. 

Unless there is a CLEAR path to upgrade over Derek Carr, this whole conversation is played out.

[Darbsk]

16 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

How many big shots do you think a player takes before it is understandable that he grows alligator arms?  That throw is low or you go somewhere else.  If Carr is getting $40 per he should know that.  I agree he needs to make the catch but it is a ball that should not be thrown.  Also it should have been a personal foul but the refs did not want to throw another one after just giving us 15 yards on a very similar throw.  If Carr gets that ball at the numbers or lower he probably catches it.

How many big shots? More than one for sure 😄😄 If you have a TE that takes a big shot once in a game then will not catch anything thrown directly at him I suggest you cut him, not pay him $17 million as he hasn’t got the heart for it.

I played rugby at a high level before a couple years of football at an admittedly very amateur level. Give me 17 mil and I’d take those shots all day, every day for that type of money 😂 by the way, the hit wasn’t even particularly big on that play.

I understand what you’re saying and in a perfect world the ball is low and he can take it whilst dropping down, but the pass is more than good enough. If it’s that much of an issue, start a poll and see if people think the pass is good enough for him to catch I suggest. The TE simply has to catch that if you want to win games. I don’t know why we’re rehashing all this. It should have been a catch at the time, it still should be. The QB throws a perfectly catchable, good ball. Could it be slightly better? Yes, but it’s 100% good enough.

[Darbsk]

4 hours ago, BackinBlack said:

Ok so Carr shouldn’t take shots at Wrs In close quarters. 
the Redzone is always tight.

 

the infamous 4th down throw away, everyone wanted Carr to throw to a covered waller… we’ve had this talk, in a game that was over I said waller would’ve been killed. And people said you gotta give him a shot. Game was over..

but game well with in reach, you don’t take the shot? 
seems weird logic to me lol. 

Yes agreed! This is the intellectually dishonest part. The argument changes to suit the narrative. 

I can totally agree that on 4th down just throw it in there and hope for the best. No problem with that part at all, give the receiver a chance to make a play, even if it’s a long shot. However, if you say that you have to be honest when he does throw it in there and gives the guy a chance and it backfires. You can’t have your cake and eat it.

It seems like right now, we don’t want our QB to throw it to an open TE in the end zone just in case he gets rocked. Imagine the fall out if Carr went elsewhere with the ball, it was incomplete, the pitchforks would be out and the all 22 would be posted showing how ‘open’ Walker was and the subsequent stats on our red zone offence. You just can’t win 😄

Edited October 29, 2022 by Darbsk

[NCOUGHMAN]

23 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

This is the intellectually dishonest part. The argument changes to suit the narrative. 

I can totally agree that on 4th down just throw it in there and hope for the best. No problem with that part at all, give the receiver a chance to make a play, even if it’s a long shot. However, if you say that you have to be honest when he does throw it in there and gives the guy a chance and it backfires. You can’t have your cake and eat it.

It seems like right now, we don’t want our QB to throw it to an open TE in the end zone just in case he gets rocked. Imagine the fall out if Carr went elsewhere with the ball, it was incomplete, the pitchforks would be out and the all 22 would be posted showing how ‘open’ Walker was and the subsequent stats on our red zone offence. You just can’t win 😄

I still say foster makes that catch takes the hit and spikes tf out of the ball. You gotta accept wallers limitations he’s not gonna do traditional classic te stuff. 

[bucksavage1]

42 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

What a vague question to ask. Depends on the QB. The simple answer is no. Have you seen the state of QB play in the NFL right now? 

You don't like Carr being a 12-14 range QB. How would you like this team with a QB who is in the 25-32 range?

There are 2 scenarios where Carr is not worth his contract:

1) He regresses completely, showing age and deterioration. 

2) The team is rebuilding and would do it around a younger QB. 

Unless there is a CLEAR path to upgrade over Derek Carr, this whole conversation is played out.

It is always a doom and gloom scenario when replacing Carr. When in reality teams have both regress and improved ditching their high priced starter. What’s the worst that can happen? Miss the playoffs? Start 2-4? 

Yes, it is possible to replace Carr with a cheaper and better option. You also NEVER mention that unloading Carr also adds additional starters + draft picks 

Seattle , Philadelphia and Kansas City are success stories

[Darbsk]

8 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

I still say foster makes that catch takes the hit and spikes tf out of the ball. You gotta accept wallers limitations he’s not gonna do traditional classic te stuff. 

Classic TE stuff like catching the ball when it hits you square in the hands? Agree he’s a ‘finesse’ TE but all receivers worth their salt have to make tough catches from time to time. So I think we should hold him to that same standard.

Totally agree that Foster catches that!

[bucksavage1]

4 hours ago, BackinBlack said:

Ok so Carr shouldn’t take shots at Wrs In close quarters. 
the Redzone is always tight.

 

the infamous 4th down throw away, everyone wanted Carr to throw to a covered waller… we’ve had this talk, in a game that was over I said waller would’ve been killed. And people said you gotta give him a shot. Game was over..

but game well with in reach, you don’t take the shot? 
seems weird logic to me lol. 

It is a risky pass. I believe if it is thrown you run the risk of a player getting alligator arms to avoid getting creamed especially in the RZ. You can put equal blame on both parties but all the blame going on Waller isn’t fair

 

[BackinBlack]

1 minute ago, Darbsk said:

Classic TE stuff like catching the ball when it hits you square in the hands? Agree he’s a ‘finesse’ TE but all receivers worth their salt have to make tough catches from time to time. So I think we should hold him to that same standard.

Totally agree that Foster catches that!

Lol wallers not a classic te, cause he is a receiving te… but he shouldn’t be expected to make a catch that our blocking Te makes 🤣. 

[BackinBlack]

Just now, bucksavage1 said:

It is a risky pass. I believe if it is thrown you run the risk of a player getting alligator arms to avoid getting creamed especially in the RZ. You can put equal blame on both parties but all the blame going on Waller isn’t fair

 

I put 75%% blame on Waller. 
considering he dropped another Redzone pass earlier on in the game that hit in the hands, it’s up to 90%.
 

either of those end up caught, I think we win the game. Just crazy we will blame a qb for hitting guys in hands, refuse to blame a bottom 5 D, just so we can blame a qb. 
 

no one is saying Carr is top 5, he needs help. When our star players drop game changing passes, it hurts. 

[Darbsk]

5 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said:

It is always a doom and gloom scenario when replacing Carr. When in reality teams have both regress and improved ditching their high priced starter. What’s the worst that can happen? Miss the playoffs? Start 2-4? 

Yes, it is possible to replace Carr with a cheaper and better option. You also NEVER mention that unloading Carr also adds additional starters + draft picks 

Seattle , Philadelphia and Kansas City are success stories

I can see the logic here, for me it’s difficult as I’ve ‘enjoyed’ the Schroeder era, the Jeff George era, the Kerry Collins era, the Jamarcus era and so many more. Sometimes you’re just glad to have a decent to good franchise QB 😂

The thing is, I actually think Carr can win a Super Bowl with a good supporting cast, not all agree and I appreciate that, but to me Carr has been the least of our issues. I think Carr is a good QB and IMO once you have one of those it’s easier to build a good team than it is to upgrade to an elite top 5 QB. It’s a fair argument to think of trying to get an elite guy though and be prepared to miss a lot.

[NCOUGHMAN]

17 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

Classic TE stuff like catching the ball when it hits you square in the hands? Agree he’s a ‘finesse’ TE but all receivers worth their salt have to make tough catches from time to time. So I think we should hold him to that same standard.

Totally agree that Foster catches that!

Imo there’s levels and you can’t underestimate the lack of experience. Waller barely has wr experience. You have to learn how to take hits imo that comes with experience. 

[Darbsk]

34 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Imo there’s levels and you can’t underestimate the lack of experience. Waller barely has wr experience. You have to learn how to take hits imo that comes with experience. 

Yeh, that’s all well and good but it’s kind of an essential skill if you’re playing receiver or TE to be able to catch the ball then expect a hit.
 

I’d have a lot more sympathy for him if he caught the ball, then took a big hit and maybe fumbled it, that can sometimes happen. But if we’re saying he’s scared of taking a hit so expect him to drop it, then that’s not really acceptable for an NFL receiver or TE IMO.
 

He caught one just before over the middle and took a shot, so I think that the ‘non traditional TE’ excuses aren’t really validated by that and that also kind of argues against him being scared of taking a hit. Probably he just lost concentration/had an eye on the defender and simply tipped it up. Just a simple mistake, but one that is hard to take for a supposed top 5 TE.