The best football coach of all time is...

[Kiwibrown]

Bill Walsh will have a an impact on the game beyond bill belichick. 

People are still using his offense and people who coached under him or under those who coached him are still in the league. There will be more superbowls in the Walsh tree in 30 years time than under the belichick tree in 50. 

[Pugger]

On 4/29/2020 at 1:54 AM, Danger said:

Hate to be that guy, but anyone who says anything other than Bill Belichick is lying to themselves.

I hate to be that gal, but if BB is the best of all time how come he couldn't make the playoffs last year without Brady?

[ET80]

2 hours ago, Pugger said:

I hate to be that gal, but if BB is the best of all time how come he couldn't make the playoffs last year without Brady?

Love to be dat dude, but that is probably just as much to do with eight Covid-19 opt outs in New England - including four starters. This doesn't factor in losing reigning DPOY Stephon Gilmore and Cam Newton for a few games after a positive Covid test. Losing those two for 3-4 games is incredibly critical for a team that ended up 7-9.

The Patriots were hit hard by Covid-19, last season can't be dismissed as "well, must be Brady..." He was a huge loss, sure - but not the only loss.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

3 hours ago, ET80 said:

Love to be dat dude, but that is probably just as much to do with eight Covid-19 opt outs in New England - including four starters. This doesn't factor in losing reigning DPOY Stephon Gilmore and Cam Newton for a few games after a positive Covid test. Losing those two for 3-4 games is incredibly critical for a team that ended up 7-9.

The Patriots were hit hard by Covid-19, last season can't be dismissed as "well, must be Brady..." He was a huge loss, sure - but not the only loss.

Idk, I moreso think their investment into Cam Newton and then their subsequent refusal to use him as a mobile QB outside of the 5 yard line led to more issues than anything. Their offense was downright atrocious when they weren't able to run the ball, and it just made it look worse that they were seemingly bought into Cam Newton as a pocket passer despite his clear shoulder issues.

But, I suppose that's more of a personnel issue than anything truly coaching related. When it comes to coaching X's and O's and stuff, I don't think you'll find anyone better than ole' Billy.

[Soko]

8 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Idk, I moreso think their investment into Cam Newton and then their subsequent refusal to use him as a mobile QB outside of the 5 yard line led to more issues than anything. Their offense was downright atrocious when they weren't able to run the ball, and it just made it look worse that they were seemingly bought into Cam Newton as a pocket passer despite his clear shoulder issues.

I mean, Cam not only had the second most rush attempts of his career, but he also threw for by far the fewest number of pass attempts of his career (sans the 2-game season in 2019). Threw only 368 times last year (good for 25th in the league), which pales in comparison to even the three seasons where Cam missed 2 games of the regular season (448, 471, and 510). 

And when you consider Cam’s 42 red zone rush attempts (only 19 inside the 5 vs his 137 total), compared to the 85 mid-field attempts (41 on NE’s 21-50, 44 on Opp’s 50-20), well, the bold’s a hard sell.

I mean, you could probably still try and say that NE refused to use Cam as a mobile QB outside the 5...but they did. Both by comparison of his career and by breaking down his rush attempts. And you could still say they forced him to be a pocket passer...but then need to remember, he threw, by far, the least he’s ever thrown as a pro. Like I said, tough sell. 

[Nut]

Belichick went 7-9 despite his team leading the league in COVID opt outs and Cam being banged up and admitted the COVID protocol threw him completely out of sync with the offense.

If you honestly believe BB isn't the GOAT HC, then you need to watch more football.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

12 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

I mean, Cam not only had the second most rush attempts of his career, but he also threw for by far the fewest number of pass attempts of his career (sans the 2-game season in 2019). Threw only 368 times last year (good for 25th in the league), which pales in comparison to even the three seasons where Cam missed 2 games of the regular season (448, 471, and 510). 

Right, they threw less because their passing offense (and Cam) were horrible.

12 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

And when you consider Cam’s 42 red zone rush attempts (only 19 inside the 5 vs his 137 total), compared to the 85 mid-field attempts (41 on NE’s 21-50, 44 on Opp’s 50-20), well, the bold’s a hard sell.

Is there a breakdown of how many of those were designed runs vs. scrambles?

12 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

I mean, you could probably still try and say that NE refused to use Cam as a mobile QB outside the 5...but they did. Both by comparison of his career and by breaking down his rush attempts. And you could still say they forced him to be a pocket passer...but then need to remember, he threw, by far, the least he’s ever thrown as a pro. Like I said, tough sell. 

I'm just going by what I saw when I watched games - which was like maybe 4-5 last year. Hardly ever ran any QB-designed runs outside the 5 yard line. Basically just straight dropbacks

[AngusMcFife]

17 hours ago, Nut said:

Belichick went 7-9 despite his team leading the league in COVID opt outs and Cam being banged up and admitted the COVID protocol threw him completely out of sync with the offense.

If you honestly believe BB isn't the GOAT HC, then you need to watch more football.

He's easily the best HC of the era. But comparing coaches across eras is more difficult.

I'm not sure how many people who declare BB as easily the greatest have learned about the game as it was in the 1950s, 60s, and 70s. 

[Mr Bad Example]

On 4/23/2021 at 2:52 PM, AngusMcFife said:

He's easily the best HC of the era. But comparing coaches across eras is more difficult.

I'm not sure how many people who declare BB as easily the greatest have learned about the game as it was in the 1950s, 60s, and 70s. 

BB has managed to sustain his success despite near-constant roster churn. For coaches like Noll and Lombardi, they accomplished the most when they got hold of a core of talent. 

[AngusMcFife]

19 minutes ago, Mr Bad Example said:

BB has managed to sustain his success despite near-constant roster churn. For coaches like Noll and Lombardi, they accomplished the most when they got hold of a core of talent. 

He didn't have much roster churn at QB from 2001-19. He had an all-time QB playing at a high level for 18 years, during an era when QB play became the single biggest factor in a team's success. No other coach has been so lucky. 

The idea that some are suggesting that he is easily the best coach of all time is silly, IMO. He's in the conversation, but his record without Brady isn't very good. 

Also I don't really see him making any lasting coaching innovations that have transformed the league in any meaningful way. Part of coaching greatness involves creativity.  

[lancerman]

9 hours ago, AngusMcFife said:

He didn't have much roster churn at QB from 2001-19. He had an all-time QB playing at a high level for 18 years, during an era when QB play became the single biggest factor in a team's success. No other coach has been so lucky. 

The idea that some are suggesting that he is easily the best coach of all time is silly, IMO. He's in the conversation, but his record without Brady isn't very good. 

Also I don't really see him making any lasting coaching innovations that have transformed the league in any meaningful way. Part of coaching greatness involves creativity.  

The point of being a coach is to win. Don Coryell made some of the most important innovations ever. He didn’t win. 

[AngusMcFife]

3 hours ago, lancerman said:

The point of being a coach is to win. Don Coryell made some of the most important innovations ever. He didn’t win. 

Some coaches won AND were innovative. Which is why Coryell isn't generally considered in the greatest coach of all time discussion. 

Bill Belichick is 11th in all time win percentage. And he doesn't have the most all time wins either. So thanks for backing up my point. 

[lancerman]

2 hours ago, AngusMcFife said:

Some coaches won AND were innovative. Which is why Coryell isn't generally considered in the greatest coach of all time discussion. 

Bill Belichick is 11th in all time win percentage. And he doesn't have the most all time wins either. So thanks for backing up my point. 

Belichick has the most championships in NFL history, he’s 3rd in regular season and post season wins, and he did it in a much harder era than the two guys ahead of him. He pretty much mastered the post salary cap team building before anyone else and coached teams to have one of the greatest upsets in SB history, one of the greatest comebacks in SB history, and one of the greatest defensive performances in SB history. 

[AngusMcFife]

4 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Belichick has the most championships in NFL history, he’s 3rd in regular season and post season wins, and he did it in a much harder era than the two guys ahead of him. He pretty much mastered the post salary cap team building before anyone else and coached teams to have one of the greatest upsets in SB history, one of the greatest comebacks in SB history, and one of the greatest defensive performances in SB history. 

Lombardi winning 5 championships in 10 years is much more impressive than Belichick winning 6 in 26 years. 

It's not clear to me why coaching in the modern era is harder than coaching in earlier eras. If you look at all time winning % of coaches, there are plenty of modern-era coaches in the ranks (Reid, Tomlin, Peyton, Jim Harbaugh, Sean McVay, John Harbaugh). I'll definitely grant you that Belichick is the greatest of the modern era coaches, no question.  

I'm not sure which game you are considering the "greatest defensive performances in Super Bowl history." The 2nd Rams one? It doesn't even come close to the Ravens demolition of the Giants. Having a good game against Goff just isn't that impressive. There are plenty of other better defensive Super Bowl performances. 

It has become clear that in the past 20 years, having an elite QB is the single biggest determining factor in a team's success. Belichick is the only coach lucky enough to have an elite QB for 18 years whose play never really deteriorated over that time. That's luck. And Belichick hasn't really done anything without Brady as a HC. 

Also, for a defensive mastermind, its remarkable that the NE defenses were mediocre to bad from 2008-2018, right after getting caught for Spygate. That's just a little suspicious, IMO.  

[lancerman]

2 hours ago, AngusMcFife said:

Lombardi winning 5 championships in 10 years is much more impressive than Belichick winning 6 in 26 years. 

It's not clear to me why coaching in the modern era is harder than coaching in earlier eras. If you look at all time winning % of coaches, there are plenty of modern-era coaches in the ranks (Reid, Tomlin, Peyton, Jim Harbaugh, Sean McVay, John Harbaugh). I'll definitely grant you that Belichick is the greatest of the modern era coaches, no question.  

I'm not sure which game you are considering the "greatest defensive performances in Super Bowl history." The 2nd Rams one? It doesn't even come close to the Ravens demolition of the Giants. Having a good game against Goff just isn't that impressive. There are plenty of other better defensive Super Bowl performances. 

It has become clear that in the past 20 years, having an elite QB is the single biggest determining factor in a team's success. Belichick is the only coach lucky enough to have an elite QB for 18 years whose play never really deteriorated over that time. That's luck. And Belichick hasn't really done anything without Brady as a HC. 

Also, for a defensive mastermind, its remarkable that the NE defenses were mediocre to bad from 2008-2018, right after getting caught for Spygate. That's just a little suspicious, IMO.  

No it’s not.... winning a lot in a short period of time means you got a really good crop of players drafted and won a bunch with them. Lombardi got the benefit of no free agency and got to hold onto everyone for a decade to do all his winning. Belichick retained exactly one player for 20 years and has won with rosters that have been completely different.

 

Also you are out of your mind if you think the Pats had bad defenses from 2014-2018. Even 08 was solid. Really it was 09-12