Ozzy Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 41 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: I've actually tried discussing these things with you calmly several times. I tried especially calmly this time because in the past even when I try to calmly bring something up that I disagree with you on, you respond like this. It was actually more for your sake. Just to offer some opinions and viewpoints you may not have thought of before. I'll admit it was a little bit of a leading question that I asked, but not for the sake of getting a laugh out of it. Just a genuine discussion on movies. You like them, I like them, I was just trying to let you lead yourself to a conclusion that might have been different than what you had previously thought. Give you a new perspective to look at something, maybe make it interesting for you. Based on our previous interactions, I know that's not easy to believe, but I wasn't trying to be a ****. You're right. I've made joke nominations. Son of Flubber was a joke nomination. I did it because I don't care which movie wins for this decade and this genre. I've actually tried explaining this to you before. I pretend a lot to not know a lot about movies, but the truth is I really do. Not as much as some, but a lot more than a lot. I did literally get an education on it. It wasn't a film class in some other degree, it was a degree of film. No, that's not where I was going with it. The questions were based on The Graduate. I asked you those questions because I wanted to see if you thought happily ever after so to speak was a requisite for romance. In The Graduate, the look on the faces of the two characters on that bus suggests and implies a bleak ending rather than a happy ending. Yes, they had the big wedding interruption and got on a bus to head off for their new life, but then there is the subtlest glimpse of consideration, of melancholy of palpable regret on both of their decisions. It was so noticeable you could almost see their lives flash on-screen. A short "honeymoon" phase where they try to convince themselves they're happy, maybe a relationship, then that relationship slowly devolving into a loveless relationship full of resentment and regret. It is one of the better endings of any movie from the 60's. It was all subtext. Beautiful, really. In one single shot, two faces, you saw a bleak and hopeless failed relationship. But, of course, that's only one interpretation. A popular one, but only one. I respond like that because I assumed why you asked, and usually it is only to get in an argument, or to mock something I said. Or at least in the past that was the only real reason it seemed. Also based on past interactions I realize you want little to do with having a genuine discussion with me and you have even said that before. Either you lose it or I do and it becomes vindictive or cynical and thus quite worthless. So yeah I tried to avoid it all together. I am aware of your film education, but just because one can write about something does not always mean they know everything about it. There are many people who can write about traditional art and what it might mean or how it is made, but they cannot actually make the art themselves. But no I did not get a education in film, in the college definition of education what so ever. And to me, no happily ever after is not a requisite for romance what so ever, some of my favorite romance movies do not have a typical happy ending. Splendor in the Grass which to me is a far superior film to The Graduate in terms of a pure romance, they do not end up together at all in the end of the film, but that is not the point. And to me it was a great romance but yes did not have a happy ending, same with Tess, not a typical story but has many romantic themes and ideals. Yes the faces on the bus at the end of The Graduate suggest something, but she did still get into the bus with him so that alone also suggests something as well. Of course it will not be easy in the future for them considering the family situation and her mother, not to mention how young they are and what they will do in the future. The fear of the unknown once the adrenaline of the moments wears off. It was a great way to end of a movie though because then it leaves the audience asking questions and thinking more about the characters and what might happen next. I am sure they put it in there that way to make it provocative and thought provoking, thus interesting and memorable which it has been over time. Some I believe nominated The Graduate as a comedy which I thought was ridiculous but clearly based on the romance nominations I do not feel people like or watch romance movies much at all, which is why I said it. Sorry about my misinterpretation of the meaning of your questions, but based on past threads nothing about any of this has to do with meaningful movie discussion. It is either jokes about this movie or that, or arguments about the categorization of a specific film in a genre. Real honest film discussion would be cool but not sure people take any of this seriously enough for that. And for any of that to occur, people have to watch a ton of movies and that is a commitment few have time to even accomplish. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpulse Posted May 10, 2020 Author Share Posted May 10, 2020 Its hard for 'happily ever after' to be a requisite given Romeo and Juliet. Granted, you could argue a few things on that, but it is the magnum opus of romance IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 (edited) 15 hours ago, Deadpulse said: Its hard for 'happily ever after' to be a requisite given Romeo and Juliet. Granted, you could argue a few things on that, but it is the magnum opus of romance IMO Romeo and Juliet has never been a romance, it's a tragedy. I look at it as a tragicomedy because two stupid teenagers died because of what they thought was love. Stupid teenagers. I laugh every time. It’s more of a romance than The Graduate in my opinion though. They thought they loved each other at the end. In The Graduate, the implication is that the feelings there aren’t legitimate and that there really isn’t any romance. Edited May 10, 2020 by Outpost31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingseanjohn Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 The Sound of Music West Side Story The Graduate 101 Dalmatians Breakfast at Tiffanys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 3 hours ago, kingseanjohn said: The Sound of Music West Side Story The Graduate 101 Dalmatians Breakfast at Tiffanys 101 Dalmatians? Amazing film and one of the best cartoons ever made easily but to me is more a adventure comedy. Agree with Breakfast and Tiffany's, Audrey is the definition of endearing in that film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingseanjohn Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 4 hours ago, Ozzy said: 101 Dalmatians? Amazing film and one of the best cartoons ever made easily but to me is more a adventure comedy. The love of fur coats vs the love of puppies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malfatron Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 4 hours ago, Ozzy said: Agree with Breakfast and Tiffany's, Audrey is the definition of endearing in that film. so you both kinda like it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DUKE Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 The Graduate West Side Story How the West Was Won That's all I got Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 @Deadpulse, after this is over, do FF best movie quotes of all-time. Everybody can nominate 10 quotes per decade, any genre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 23 hours ago, Outpost31 said: Romeo and Juliet has never been a romance, it's a tragedy. I look at it as a tragicomedy because two stupid teenagers died because of what they thought was love. Stupid teenagers. I laugh every time. It’s more of a romance than The Graduate in my opinion though. They thought they loved each other at the end. In The Graduate, the implication is that the feelings there aren’t legitimate and that there really isn’t any romance. I mean, if we're going back to Shakespearean definitions, then a Romance is a full tragedy but with a happy ending. I think in modern usage, if a sexual/romantic relationship is a main plot thread of the movie, it's a romance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 8 minutes ago, Daniel said: I mean, if we're going back to Shakespearean definitions, then a Romance is a full tragedy but with a happy ending. I think in modern usage, if a sexual/romantic relationship is a main plot thread of the movie, it's a romance. I don’t really care with romance honestly. Not ending up together is fine and still romantic, but ending up together and being miserable I feel is tragedy/comedy. The only one I take issue with is The Graduate. That’s like an anti-romance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DUKE Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 I certainly don't think it needs to be a happy ending to be a romance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 29 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: I don’t really care with romance honestly. Not ending up together is fine and still romantic, but ending up together and being miserable I feel is tragedy/comedy. The only one I take issue with is The Graduate. That’s like an anti-romance. Eh, I still think it falls within the casual definition. If we don't have a little wiggle room with genre, then our catch-all drama category will just have everything. 15 minutes ago, THE DUKE said: I certainly don't think it needs to be a happy ending to be a romance Agreed. I was just referring to the happy ending to talk about the classical, pre-Romantic era definition, aka Tragicomedies. Usually used for The Tempest, Cymbaline, Pericles, and Winter's Tale. A comedy is a tragedy, but without a full tragic sequence, and a happy ending, usually a marriage. A tragedy has a a full tragic fall, and no happy ending, usually the death of the protagonist. A romance has a full tragic cycle, but without the death of the protagonist, and a later happy ending, which is why they usually span at least a couple of generations. I think that's a little restricting for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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