Overrated Head Coaches

[LeotheLion]

5 hours ago, RamblinMan99 said:

Probably Sean McVay.  

McVay might be overrated but you literally made a post today that Goff is the worst player on the Rams? How do you possibly reconcile the Rams 2017-2018 offensive success when they have an overrated head coach and bad QB? Either McVay is carrying Goff to a top tier offense and thus an elite head coach or Goff isn't that bad. It literally can't be both. 

[jrry32]

21 minutes ago, LeotheLion said:

McVay might be overrated but you literally made a post today that Goff is the worst player on the Rams? How do you possibly reconcile the Rams 2017-2018 offensive success when they have an overrated head coach and bad QB? Either McVay is carrying Goff to a top tier offense and thus an elite head coach or Goff isn't that bad. It literally can't be both. 

He's a troll. Just ignore.

[JAF-N72EX]

23 hours ago, jrry32 said:

I'd go the opposite way on Marty. He's underrated based on his inability to win in the playoffs, but that man could build a winner anywhere and everywhere (and did). Hell, he even won in Cleveland.

He had a 5-13 playoff record including 9 seasons where his teams went one-and-done seasons and zero SB appearances, despite having some loaded rosters and staff. That is terrible, no matter how you slice it.

A HC's job is more than having an eye for talent because talent means nothing if you can't win with it. Other HC's like Marvin Lewis and Jim Mora had a great eyes for talent too but it never amounted to much for them either. 

KC should have had a SB in the 1990's and the Chargers should have had atleast 1 SB in the 2000's when they were a favorite for what seemed like damn near every single year. Both Shotty and Norv should be ashamed of themselves because those teams were stacked (albeit, Merriman's scandal hurt).

[JAF-N72EX]

17 hours ago, Elky said:

KC had the league's second top rusher and Indy held him to just 32 yards.

Injured Trent Green, 107 yards passing in that game....enough said (since it's box scores matter to you). LJ was a focal point and tt's easier for a defense to concentrate on the run game when they have to worry less on the pass game. FYI, they held down LJ too just a few weeks early too. I would also point out that division rivals are almost always a tougher out than other teams. 

17 hours ago, Elky said:

Jamal Lewis: 13 carries, 53 scoreless yards.

On only 13 touches. That was not too abnormal for him that year. He would go on amazing single game streaks but would disappear for weeks at a time. 

Plus, the passing game, again. Nobody was ever afraid of Steve McNair at that time (or those offensive weopons) after he lost his ability as a dual threat and had to rely more on his arm from the pocket. 

17 hours ago, Elky said:

Indy does NOT beat us if their defense doesn't hold us to just 13 points in the second half.

They wouldn't have need too if your defense didn't let the offense put up ~500 yards on you. 

[JAF-N72EX]

2 hours ago, jrry32 said:

He's a troll. Just ignore.

Unfortunately, we all seem to still give him the attention that he's looking for. 

[jrry32]

19 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

He had a 5-13 playoff record including 9 seasons where his teams went one-and-done seasons and zero SB appearances, despite having some loaded rosters and staff. That is terrible, no matter how you slice it.

A HC's job is more than having an eye for talent because talent means nothing if you can't win with it. Other HC's like Marvin Lewis and Jim Mora had a great eyes for talent too but it never amounted to much for them either. 

KC should have had a SB in the 1990's and the Chargers should have had atleast 1 SB in the 2000's when they were a favorite for what seemed like damn near every single year. Both Shotty and Norv should be ashamed of themselves because those teams were stacked (albeit, Merriman's scandal hurt).

But Marty had more than an eye for talent. He won with talent. Yeah, he didn't get the job done in the playoffs, but he coached for 21 years in the NFL and had only two losing seasons. Schottenheimer had a career similar to Andy Reid before Andy finally won it all. They were guys who could build a winner anywhere but couldn't take you all the way. Andy finally made it. Marty didn't. But if anything, both guys were vastly underrated because of that label (until Andy finally won it all). People underestimate how hard it is to consistently win. When you get stuck with a team that does nothing but lose for over a decade, you appreciate a coach who will get you to the playoffs seemingly every year. I'll also note that Marty might well have won it all in 2006 if not for rotten luck (in the form of a moronic play by Marlon McCree). Impossible to say if they would have beaten the Colts in the AFCCG, though.

[JAF-N72EX]

3 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

But Marty had more than an eye for talent. He won with talent. Yeah, he didn't get the job done in the playoffs, but he coached for 21 years in the NFL and had only two losing seasons. Schottenheimer had a career similar to Andy Reid before Andy finally won it all. They were guys who could build a winner anywhere but couldn't take you all the way. Andy finally made it. Marty didn't. But if anything, both guys were vastly underrated because of that label (until Andy finally won it all). People underestimate how hard it is to consistently win. When you get stuck with a team that does nothing but lose for over a decade, you appreciate a coach who will get you to the playoffs seemingly every year. I'll also note that Marty might well have won it all in 2006 if not for rotten luck (in the form of a moronic play by Marlon McCree). Impossible to say if they would have beaten the Colts in the AFCCG, though.

I'm too lazy to look it up but only 2 losing seasons seems like a stretch to me.

 I understand all that. But Andy Reid had that stigma for the same reasons that Marvin, Mora, and others had and for good reasons that can't be ignored either though. Sure, it's hard to get the SB and win it and I get that. But when you havea stacked team, year after year, and still come away with 9 one and done seasons.......that's unacceptable.

[KingOfNewYork]

14 hours ago, Starless said:

I don't think anyone rates him highly anymore who isn't a high-ranking member of the Raiders organization. 

Yeah but you know the whole “he won with Dungy’s team” thing gets pushed when discussing him. 

[warrenblue]

John Harbaugh. Pretty mediocre when it comes to X's and Os. He is great managing the locker-room and keeping his players motivated I will give him that though.

[bigdog2372]

On 5/11/2020 at 12:29 AM, TheGame316 said:

Tony Dungy

Couldn't get over the hump in Tampa

Had Manning and an unreal offense but couldn't build a defense in Indy that could hold up when the offense wasn't putting up a ton of points

Could never adjust the teams gameplan when it had to go into an inevitable cold weather game somewhere come playoff time

Killed his teams momentum when he'd rest players especially when they were heading for 16-0 just to flame out in the playoffs

Thank you! -Bucs fan. He's a good man, absolutely no doubt about it. But he was a glorified DC masquerading as a HC. Those that use the tired "Gruden won with Dungy's team" line prove the exact opposite of what they intend.

[naptownskinsfan]

22 hours ago, animaltested said:

Ill go to bat on this one. 

Prior to Holmgren's start in 1999, Seattle hadn't been to the playoffs since 1988, hadn't won a playoff game since 1984.

From 1999-2007 Seattle won 5 Division titles (including the AFC WEST),  had six playoff appearances, 4 wins and a Super Bowl appearance.

The wheels completely feel off in 2008.

But Holmgren dragging this lame duck franchise into the limelight deserves a lot of credit, same with plucking Hasselbeck from obscurity, and molding him into a ProBowl level QB. Such an important component to Seattle's success during that stretch. 

31-33 during the four years he was head coach and GM/EVP. He never had a sub .500 season previous to that, and the only sub .500 season he would have after that was his final season at 4-12.  Outside of those years, the worst record he would post would be 9-7.  

Poster coach for why I think head coaches need to be the head coach only.  Very good/great head coach.  Not so much when he was sitting in the GM chair.  

[naptownskinsfan]

11 hours ago, rocky_rams said:

How is McVay overrated?

He brought a 4-12 team to 11-5 the next year and to the playoffs? 

His second year, his team finished 13-3 and he went to the SB

his third year which was his worst year he went 9-7? 

Although he’s had a very impressive rookie year, nobody has LaFleur in their top 5 HC rankings so you’re blowing smoke on that one. Give him a few more years under his belt 

Agree with that.  Great points on McVay,  Really liked him coming from the Redskins.

Also, to the post you quoted, Matt LaFleur is overrated after one season, because he decided to draft a QB to make sure his team was going to be set once Aaron Rodgers is at the end.  Rodgers will be 37 in December, and in my opinion, a smart move to start planning for him to leave.  Dude went 13-3 and went to the NFCCG in his first year, inheriting a 6-8-1 team.  

LOL at calling Carroll overrated for one play call.  carroll has a Super Bowl win under his belt, two national titles, four Rose Bowls, one Orange Bowl, a record over .800 in college and a record closing in on .600 in the NFL.  

[naptownskinsfan]

57 minutes ago, warrenblue said:

John Harbaugh. Pretty mediocre when it comes to X's and Os. He is great managing the locker-room and keeping his players motivated I will give him that though.

But that is exactly what the owner wants him to do, and that is exactly what head coaches should do.  Run the team.  Hire the best X and O guys to run your offense and defense.  That's why the Ravens have succeeded for so long under his direction.  

[ravishingone]

8 minutes ago, bigdog2372 said:

Thank you! -Bucs fan. He's a good man, absolutely no doubt about it. But he was a glorified DC masquerading as a HC. Those that use the tired "Gruden won with Dungy's team" line prove the exact opposite of what they intend.

Well, I watched the Dungy years first hand, and his offense was painful to watch.  Frustrating and conservative for sure.  However, to not give him credit as a very good HC is wrong.  The Bucs in their entire history had 3 winning seasons before Dungy.  3 seasons out of 20 were winning seasons.  Not any coordinator could have turned the franchise out of the toilet.  Want perspective, just look at the last 12 seasons with current history of the Bucs.

As far as his Colts tenure, IIRC is there that much same losing to arguably the GOAT HC and QB in the playoffs?   It was the right time for the Bucs to move on when they did, but his accomplishments as a HC should not be under valued.   Wade Phillips and Norv Turner were  great coordinators who were not good HCs. I can t put Dungy in that category even with his warts. 

[DannyB]

I think one of the main things that bugs me over the past decade or two is that it seems like new/young coaches will pop up, have early success in their first or second year, get heaps of praise, and then fade.

Lovie Smith, Mike Smith, Bruce Arians, Sean McVay, Matt Nagy, and Doug Pederson are just a few that come to mind, but I'm sure there are others.

Of course it's early to make conclusions about the latter 3. I think McVay actually has half a clue at least so I have hope there, but my feeling is Nagy and Pederson are just gonna be so-so. Nagy might be gone after next season, Pederson might stick around for a few more, but I don't think he ever reinserts himself as one of the premier coaches in the league.