Rookies report 21st Veterans 28th

[Shanedorf]

37 minutes ago, sammymvpknight said:

It just seems like our country’s priorities are really screwed up.

no argument there and best wishes to you in staying safe

[Deadpulse]

40 minutes ago, sammymvpknight said:

Even if it’s 80 and not 90, that doesn’t even include the possibility that that daily testing could be done indefinitely if the other other day benchmarks aren’t met. That also doesn’t include the number of people inside the “bubble” that doesn’t include players. We could be talking 300,000+ tests.

I’m a healthcare worker, so I find the priority of entertainment over access to necessary healthcare resources insulting. I see COVID patients and yet I’ve never been tested. If I got tested and tested positive, it would NOT be work related and I’d either have to use my years worth of vacation or take unpaid leave. I’d then lose money for lack of productivity. Meanwhile, we have significant issues with access to testing for patients who are either symptomatic or have a known exposure. It just seems like our country’s priorities are really screwed up.

 

I too work in healthcare but not on the front lines. I am in business development. I manage a team who in turns manages nurses in various positions. When they get tested due to symptoms for COVID-19 it still takes over a week to get results. Even then, they only get tested when hey show symptoms which makes no sense to me because they are constantly in contact with medically fragile patients. Our patient population is most vent and trached patients with long term or life long medical complications. 

[49erurtaza]

1 hour ago, sammymvpknight said:

Even if it’s 80 and not 90, that doesn’t even include the possibility that that daily testing could be done indefinitely if the other other day benchmarks aren’t met. That also doesn’t include the number of people inside the “bubble” that doesn’t include players. We could be talking 300,000+ tests.

I’m a healthcare worker, so I find the priority of entertainment over access to necessary healthcare resources insulting. I see COVID patients and yet I’ve never been tested. If I got tested and tested positive, it would NOT be work related and I’d either have to use my years worth of vacation or take unpaid leave. I’d then lose money for lack of productivity. Meanwhile, we have significant issues with access to testing for patients who are either symptomatic or have a known exposure. It just seems like our country’s priorities are really screwed up.

 

To be fair I don't think it has to do with the entertainment side that is allowing them to get crazy amount of testing done it's the money side that's going to get it done. 

[dll2000]

On 7/21/2020 at 4:27 PM, Deadpulse said:

You are going to sit here and point out how physically fit and healthy the man is making it more terrifying to us normies that he experienced symptoms for up to three weeks and then say it is a reason to NOT be worried? Dude, critical thinking is not your strong suit. 

Always with the spin.

Comment by @Brit Packwas NFL players aren't in much danger.  Which is 100% true.  

Then someone said what about Von Miller?  Von Miller doesn't appear in danger does he?  You have never been sick for 3 weeks?  Most people have.  If they haven't they will.   Many have scars on their lungs from it too.   

You guys are all fear porn all the time.  You are addicted.   Try not watching news and get off social media for a bit and maybe you won't be so terrified all the time.  

 

 

[kingseanjohn]

1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

Always with the spin.

Comment by @Brit Packwas NFL players aren't in much danger.  Which is 100% true.  

Then someone said what about Von Miller?  Von Miller doesn't appear in danger does he?  You have never been sick for 3 weeks?  Most people have.  If they haven't they will.   Many have scars on their lungs from it too.   

You guys are all fear porn all the time.  You are addicted.   Try not watching news and get off social media for a bit and maybe you won't be so terrified all the time. 

Not sure if you are or ever have been military. But this is like saying "stop listening to or attending intel briefs so you won't be so terrified all the time" and then going outside the wire. Ignorance is bliss but it can be dangerous and even deadly.

[Deadpulse]

2 hours ago, dll2000 said:

Comment by @Brit Packwas NFL players aren't in much danger.  Which is 100% true.  

This right here. This is the ignorance that makes me so angry. NFL players are not immune to SPREADING this highly communicably disease to others. They are going to be traveling all over the country coming into contact with so many people they otherwise wouldn't. Even if NFL players aren't in much danger, which is not 100% true at all, if it is give me that empirical data that confirms it and educate me; that does not mean the 50 year old coach on an opposing team with asthma isnt. That does not mean the son of the flight attendant that is vent reliant isnt. It is not ONLY about the players getting this disease and whether or not they can weather it; in fact I would argue that it's secondary. It is mindfully perpetuating a pandemic that is the issue. Maybe thats too big a concept to wrap your head around. 

[Brit Pack]

1 hour ago, Deadpulse said:

This right here. This is the ignorance that makes me so angry. NFL players are not immune to SPREADING this highly communicably disease to others. They are going to be traveling all over the country coming into contact with so many people they otherwise wouldn't. Even if NFL players aren't in much danger, which is not 100% true at all, if it is give me that empirical data that confirms it and educate me; that does not mean the 50 year old coach on an opposing team with asthma isnt. That does not mean the son of the flight attendant that is vent reliant isnt. It is not ONLY about the players getting this disease and whether or not they can weather it; in fact I would argue that it's secondary. It is mindfully perpetuating a pandemic that is the issue. Maybe thats too big a concept to wrap your head around. 

This above I could get behind IF your country was in full lockdown. It makes sense. Why have athletes move across the country and spread this virus? The fact though that Disney Land is open, that beaches are open, that restaurants are open, that people are socialising and that they are flying already across the country, how much more are footballers spreading this virus than your average Joe? Will average Joe get tested everyday as he/she wonders about their new daily? If the footballer wasn't playing would he still be out, meeting friends, flying around? For example Aaron Rodgers was out in Lake Tahoe playing a celebrity golf game. All the scenarios you gave above are also true for any person flying or moving or interacting. Everyone out and about locally or nationally are mindfully perpetuating the pandemic already. Do I agree we should all be in tighter lockdowns? Maybe. But if most of us are expected to get back to it in terms of employment, NFL players should also do the same. They will be more looked after than the rest of us once they get back to work. 

[Deadpulse]

28 minutes ago, Brit Pack said:

This above I could get behind IF your country was in full lockdown. It makes sense. Why have athletes move across the country and spread this virus? The fact though that Disney Land is open, that beaches are open, that restaurants are open, that people are socialising and that they are flying already across the country, how much more are footballers spreading this virus than your average Joe? Will average Joe get tested everyday as he/she wonders about their new daily? If the footballer wasn't playing would he still be out, meeting friends, flying around? For example Aaron Rodgers was out in Lake Tahoe playing a celebrity golf game. All the scenarios you gave above are also true for any person flying or moving or interacting. Everyone out and about locally or nationally are mindfully perpetuating the pandemic already. Do I agree we should all be in tighter lockdowns? Maybe. But if most of us are expected to get back to it in terms of employment, NFL players should also do the same. They will be more looked after than the rest of us once they get back to work. 

Right, in all those places where beaches are open and disney is open (Cali and Florida) there are MASSIVE spikes in the virus. It's a fallacy and dangerous to say well everyone else isnt being safe so whats the point? The point is every little bit helps and just because others are doing it wrong (with concrete and documented and DEADLY consequences) does not mean we should say F it and allow free reign so that MORE spikes happen across the country. 

[Xenos]

52 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

Right, in all those places where beaches are open and disney is open (Cali and Florida) there are MASSIVE spikes in the virus. It's a fallacy and dangerous to say well everyone else isnt being safe so whats the point? The point is every little bit helps and just because others are doing it wrong (with concrete and documented and DEADLY consequences) does not mean we should say F it and allow free reign so that MORE spikes happen across the country. 

I just want to add the disclaimer that I agree with everything you said except I don’t think the beaches are the problem unless people are using the indoor facilities there.

Anyways, carry on.

[Deadpulse]

19 minutes ago, Xenos said:

I just want to add the disclaimer that I agree with everything you said except I don’t think the beaches are the problem unless people are using the indoor facilities there.

Anyways, carry on.

beaches create crowds. I think I know what your getting at but mass gatherings are the enemy 

[Shanedorf]

2 hours ago, Deadpulse said:

This is the ignorance that makes me so angry.

Me too...."But I'm trying real hard to be the shepherd"  (Pulp Fiction)

I've spent 25+ years working in the development of new medicines & vaccines and I've had the great pleasure of working with some amazingly smart human beings. One thing I learned from them is that the more you know...the more you realize how little you know -  and the less you make declarative statements like some posters. In fact, that's why its so easy to spot people that have no clue what they are talking about - because they speak in absolutes

“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.”
~ Bertrand Russell ~

Von Miller gave an insightful account of his battle with corona, and implored his team mates to take it seriously. But Mr. Smarty Pants waives it off like it was nothing. Elite athletes playing at an elite level need all the oxygen carrying capacity they can get - and they work out like demons to improve their stamina and feed their muscles/brains the O2 they require to perform at their peak. Von also suffers from asthma AND he plays at altitude, meaning the air he breathes has the least amount of oxygen of any city in the NFL. Lung scarring & impairment is a very real concern for him - and his ability to breathe is his livelihood.
These legitimate concerns are rather obvious to most thinking people.

The League and each team spend millions on health, strength, conditioning, nutrition and injury avoidance - why wouldn't they invest at the same level to prevent the deleterious effects that come from a novel virus ? And why wouldn't NFL players be concerned about something that not only impacts their ability to play, but also impacts their families as noted by Andrew Whitworth of the LA Rams in his first- person account ?

There is so much we don't know yet, and more clinical studies are being launched every week - including some to assess the cognitive impairments in patients who recovered from the disease. IF there are impairments, that too impacts an NFL players' ability to keep his job - its a thinking man's game

We don't yet know for certain all the organs which are impacted - but quite unfortunately - that list is growing and includes the brain

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200720/A-comprehensive-review-of-COVID-19s-effect-on-organ-systems-outside-the-lungs.aspx

 "Future studies following patients who experienced complications during hospitalizations for COVID-19 will be crucial," said Dr. Madhavan. "It really was quite astounding to see the significant ramifications this virus had on these other organ systems."
"Physicians need to think of COVID-19 as a multisystem disease," said Gupta. "There's a lot of news about clotting but it's also important to understand that a substantial proportion of these patients suffer kidney, heart, and brain damage."

We don't know jack diddly squat - yet. But we're learning more each day and the immense number of selfless people giving their all to find answers and treat the afflicted deserve better than the unenlightened comments on display in this thread. Let's cut these healthcare workers some slack and either educate yourself or stop posting erroneous opinions about things you clearly do not understand.

[dtait93]

Great news! Can't wait to have football back

[Brit Pack]

4 hours ago, Shanedorf said:

Me too...."But I'm trying real hard to be the shepherd"  (Pulp Fiction)

I've spent 25+ years working in the development of new medicines & vaccines and I've had the great pleasure of working with some amazingly smart human beings. One thing I learned from them is that the more you know...the more you realize how little you know -  and the less you make declarative statements like some posters. In fact, that's why its so easy to spot people that have no clue what they are talking about - because they speak in absolutes

“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.”
~ Bertrand Russell ~

 

Von Miller gave an insightful account of his battle with corona, and implored his team mates to take it seriously. But Mr. Smarty Pants waives it off like it was nothing. Elite athletes playing at an elite level need all the oxygen carrying capacity they can get - and they work out like demons to improve their stamina and feed their muscles/brains the O2 they require to perform at their peak. Von also suffers from asthma AND he plays at altitude, meaning the air he breathes has the least amount of oxygen of any city in the NFL. Lung scarring & impairment is a very real concern for him - and his ability to breathe is his livelihood.
These legitimate concerns are rather obvious to most thinking people.

The League and each team spend millions on health, strength, conditioning, nutrition and injury avoidance - why wouldn't they invest at the same level to prevent the deleterious effects that come from a novel virus ? And why wouldn't NFL players be concerned about something that not only impacts their ability to play, but also impacts their families as noted by Andrew Whitworth of the LA Rams in his first- person account ?

There is so much we don't know yet, and more clinical studies are being launched every week - including some to assess the cognitive impairments in patients who recovered from the disease. IF there are impairments, that too impacts an NFL players' ability to keep his job - its a thinking man's game

We don't yet know for certain all the organs which are impacted - but quite unfortunately - that list is growing and includes the brain

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200720/A-comprehensive-review-of-COVID-19s-effect-on-organ-systems-outside-the-lungs.aspx

 "Future studies following patients who experienced complications during hospitalizations for COVID-19 will be crucial," said Dr. Madhavan. "It really was quite astounding to see the significant ramifications this virus had on these other organ systems."
"Physicians need to think of COVID-19 as a multisystem disease," said Gupta. "There's a lot of news about clotting but it's also important to understand that a substantial proportion of these patients suffer kidney, heart, and brain damage."

We don't know jack diddly squat - yet. But we're learning more each day and the immense number of selfless people giving their all to find answers and treat the afflicted deserve better than the unenlightened comments on display in this thread. Let's cut these healthcare workers some slack and either educate yourself or stop posting erroneous opinions about things you clearly do not understand.

Obviously you have insight and passion that others don't. I think what we are seeing here partially in this thread is what is being reflected in society where the science is still uncertain and it is battling the political and economic decisions that have to be made. Those running society know that they can't wait for the science to clear its doubts so as to move forward. Almost all businesses have economic pressures which impacts individuals. It is that fine balance of where to pick your poison. Death by the pandemic or death by waiting for it to get under control.

Here in the UK our government has been slatted much like yours for a failure to act fast enough, while our Prime Minister has insisted that decisions are being led by science. However, that is often unclear and all nations are taking different strategies. The fact is lock downs can't last even though they may be the best strategy. 

And here is where the tension lies. I can appreciate all that you have said where it becomes conflicted for me is the experience of what is unfolding in the UK and Europe. These nations that top the tables in death per capita are mainly European, with the UK second on that list, however, much of Europe is open for flights and for holidays, social and entertainment industries are getting back on their feet and people are now out and about and governments have seen fit to do this. And they might be right to do so as there have been no spikes, as of yet...

While the average Joe is getting back in the groove almost all elite sports have been back on schedule with little or no ill effects across Europe. So for me that is why I get bemused that firstly NFL players are being treated with way more importance than any other elite athletes. Importance in terms of demonstrating their opinions, kicking up a fuss and also the degree of testing etc that is made available just for them. Maybe it is just an American thing and also where you are as a nation during this pandemic. Having said that though when a lot of the UK sports athletes went back into camps in May  we were still in the grips of a tight lockdown. 

So while I appreciate the science I don't believe society can wait for the science. 

With regards to one final point. We all have degrees of ignorance and with that form opinions. If you wish to be the 'shepherd' that shows everyone the light then maybe stop the holier than though approach. 

[Xenos]

5 hours ago, Brit Pack said:

Obviously you have insight and passion that others don't. I think what we are seeing here partially in this thread is what is being reflected in society where the science is still uncertain and it is battling the political and economic decisions that have to be made. Those running society know that they can't wait for the science to clear its doubts so as to move forward. Almost all businesses have economic pressures which impacts individuals. It is that fine balance of where to pick your poison. Death by the pandemic or death by waiting for it to get under control.

Here in the UK our government has been slatted much like yours for a failure to act fast enough, while our Prime Minister has insisted that decisions are being led by science. However, that is often unclear and all nations are taking different strategies. The fact is lock downs can't last even though they may be the best strategy. 

And here is where the tension lies. I can appreciate all that you have said where it becomes conflicted for me is the experience of what is unfolding in the UK and Europe. These nations that top the tables in death per capita are mainly European, with the UK second on that list, however, much of Europe is open for flights and for holidays, social and entertainment industries are getting back on their feet and people are now out and about and governments have seen fit to do this. And they might be right to do so as there have been no spikes, as of yet...

While the average Joe is getting back in the groove almost all elite sports have been back on schedule with little or no ill effects across Europe. So for me that is why I get bemused that firstly NFL players are being treated with way more importance than any other elite athletes. Importance in terms of demonstrating their opinions, kicking up a fuss and also the degree of testing etc that is made available just for them. Maybe it is just an American thing and also where you are as a nation during this pandemic. Having said that though when a lot of the UK sports athletes went back into camps in May  we were still in the grips of a tight lockdown. 

So while I appreciate the science I don't believe society can wait for the science. 

With regards to one final point. We all have degrees of ignorance and with that form opinions. If you wish to be the 'shepherd' that shows everyone the light then maybe stop the holier than though approach. 

Let’s just say that one of the reasons the US is in its current predicament is because they didn’t wait for the science. They were looking at things too short sightedly especially the economics. Now we’re moving backwards and businesses that were reopened are closing again.

[Xenos]

Nations that take care of their citizens are currently viewed as the winners. What a novel idea:

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/07/24/894148860/without-a-vaccine-researchers-say-herd-immunity-may-never-be-achieved

 

Quote

Instead, nations that can safely shield their population the longest will come out ahead. "South Korea, Vietnam, New Zealand, Japan — these are going to be success stories," he says.

Those nations have suppressed the virus through an initial lockdown, coupled with sustained contact tracing and isolation of sick individuals. That approach, combined with some social distancing and widespread use of masks, can quash the virus to levels where normal life can more or less resume — as long as elected officials, public health leaders and the public continue after that to work in concert to contain any outbreaks.

Sridhar says that Scotland is currently pursuing such a "zero COVID" strategy, and although it hasn't eliminated the coronavirus entirely, it appears to be working.

"Pubs are open, bars are open, kids are in playing in the parks," Sridhar says. "Schools are going to go back full time, and infections are so low that people can feel safe doing that. It's a painful process and it does take time, but there are ways you can stop it."