Say PEAK Randy Moss is a 99/100 Rate your top 5 WRS

[Soko]

9 minutes ago, OkeyDoke21 said:

Wait, what?  Why?

Because he’s always been an insanely consistent player. Saying “Jerry Rice” opposed to “Jerry Rice at his best” honestly isn’t all that big of a jump. 

Saying you get “Randy Moss” instead of “Randy Moss at his peak” is. The best of Moss vs the best of Rice is a much different discussion than comparing their careers. This discussion essentially takes Moss’ biggest weaknesses and Rice’s biggest strength (in the GOAT debate vs Randy), and mitigates then both.

Edited August 12, 2020 by Yin-Yang

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

I feel like my opinion is a hybrid of others.

Jerry Rice is a 100 definitely. No question about it.

Current WR's, I don't think any of them break a 90 or 93, because none of them, not even Deandre Hopkins, come close to what prime Randy Moss was. None of them even come close to prime Calvin Johnson, for that matter.

My top 5:

1. Deandre Hopkins
2. Michael Thomas
3. Julio Jones
4. Davante Adams
5. Amari Cooper

[OkeyDoke21]

21 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Because he’s always been an insanely consistent player. Saying “Jerry Rice” opposed to “Jerry Rice at his best” honestly isn’t all that big of a jump. 

Saying you get “Randy Moss” instead of “Randy Moss at his peak” is. The best of Moss vs the best of Rice is a much different discussion than comparing their careers. This discussion essentially takes Moss’ biggest weaknesses and Rice’s biggest strength (in the GOAT debate vs Randy), and mitigates then both.

That just means that there is a greater variance in Moss's floor and ceiling than Rice's, not that his ceiling is higher.  Rice wasn't just some stat compiler, that held on, he was legitimately the best receiver, some would even argue player, in the game, for a decade.  He wasn't just consistently good, he peaked as the best, too. His peak absolutely stacks up with Moss.  That's a wild take.  Rice has a triple crown, led the NFL in total TD's multiple times, won multiple OPOY's as a WR.  Seriously, go stack their peaks against each other.   I could see that outlook if you only saw Rice once Moss was in the league, but not if you were watching Rice mid 80's-mid 90's.

Edited August 12, 2020 by OkeyDoke21

[Soko]

8 minutes ago, OkeyDoke21 said:

That just means that there is a greater variance in Moss's floor and ceiling than Rice's, not that his ceiling is higher.  Rice wasn't just some stat compiler, that held on, he was legitimately the best receiver, some would even argue player, in the game, for a decade.  He wasn't just consistently good, he peaked as the best, too. His peak absolutely stacks up with Moss.  That's a wild take.  Rice has a triple crown, led the NFL in total TD's multiple times, won multiple OPOY's as a WR.  Seriously, go stack their peaks against each other.   I could see that outlook if you only saw Rice once Moss was in the league, but not if you were watching Rice mid 80's-mid 90's.

Never said Rice was a stat compiler or that he was just a consistently good player. Not sure where that came from. And going triple crown, winning OPOY a couple times, etc, also irrelevant in this particular topic - unless we’re assuming “peak” is actually “10-year peak”, but that’d be a funny term for a wide receiver. 

Rice was a machine that never stopped chugging. Moss was a freak of nature that put fear into a defense that most players never could. FWIW, I’m going fully subjective on this here.

[OkeyDoke21]

56 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Never said Rice was a stat compiler or that he was just a consistently good player. Not sure where that came from. And going triple crown, winning OPOY a couple times, etc, also irrelevant in this particular topic - unless we’re assuming “peak” is actually “10-year peak”, but that’d be a funny term for a wide receiver. 

Rice was a machine that never stopped chugging. Moss was a freak of nature that put fear into a defense that most players never could. FWIW, I’m going fully subjective on this here.

Peak is just a small segment of their prime years, to me.  The 10 years would be his prime, take any piece of that, and call it his peak, and compare that to whatever segment of Moss's career you'd want to consider Moss's peak.  Not seeing how OPOY's and triple crowns would be irrelevant to the topic, when the topic is that Rice's peak can't stack up to Moss's, when  Rice was accomplishing those things, at his peak, while Moss was not. 

The stat compiler train comes from your reasoning of saying he has the better argument for greater career, but not the same argument for greater peak, because he was insanely consistent.  I don't understand where the consistency is taking away from the peak.  Just because he sustained a high level longer, means his highest level wasn't as high?  I think he has the better argument in both cases.  I apologize if I'm interpreting that wrong, I just wasn't sure how that was supposed to be taken. 

I just think you're criminally underselling the level of player Rice was at his best, in comparison to Moss.  He was also incredibly feared, he just wasn't taking the top off the D in the manner that Moss did.  They're my two favorite receivers ever, so I don't mind who you'd take, or anything, but I just have hard time seeing how peak Moss was any better than peak Rice.   

Another poster said that we didn't need another Rice vs Moss debate, and I agree, but I pretty much did just that; so I'm not going to drag this out where it takes over the thread, I just wanted to see where that original thought was coming from.

Edited August 12, 2020 by OkeyDoke21

[Billy86]

On 8/12/2020 at 7:00 PM, Yin-Yang said:

Never said Rice was a stat compiler or that he was just a consistently good player. Not sure where that came from. And going triple crown, winning OPOY a couple times, etc, also irrelevant in this particular topic - unless we’re assuming “peak” is actually “10-year peak”, but that’d be a funny term for a wide receiver. 

Rice was a machine that never stopped chugging. Moss was a freak of nature that put fear into a defense that most players never could. FWIW, I’m going fully subjective on this here.

There's an argument for either in peak, but saying OPOY awards and such are irrelevant when talking about their peaks doesn't really make sense since to win that award as a WR you have to be playing out of your mind. Moss never had a season with 20+ yards per catch of 1,800+ yards, or 120 catches - all of which Rice achieved. Moss does have more TDs in a single season though (23 vs 22). Rice also has higher numbers for catches, yards and receiving TDs in a single game than Moss if we are talking one game peaks.

Moss had more of a knack for an impossible catch, and as a GB fan I am more than aware of what he could do before wiping his *ss on the posts, for which a lot has to be said and can arguably put him in the discussion there too. But to claim he had the better peak beyond doubt isn't so much debatable as it is incorrect. 

[Soko]

3 hours ago, Billy86 said:

There's an argument for either in peak, but saying OPOY awards and such are irrelevant when talking about their peaks doesn't really make sense since to win that award as a WR you have to be playing out of your mind. Moss never had a season with 20+ yards per catch of 1,800+ yards, or 120 catches - all of which Rice achieved. Moss does have more TDs in a single season though (23 vs 22). Rice also has higher numbers for catches, yards and receiving TDs in a single game than Moss if we are talking one game peaks.

Correction: to win that award as a WR, you have to be playing out of your mind and there needs to be a down year for running backs and quarterbacks. Go check the types of years (statistically) offensive players were having in 87 and 93 and we can compare them to 5k yards - 50 TD Brady or 2K Jamal Lewis. If we are to assume peak is any given single season or so, why would multiple awards and accolades figure into it? It seems silly to argue about career accolades in a peak thread.

As for the stats, Rice pretty much always has that advantage over everyone. Nothing takes away from that fact. I think Rice’s career is very representative of playing with three MVP quarterbacks and three successful HCs. I’d have loved to see Moss start his career with two HOFers back-to-back. 

Quote

Moss had more of a knack for an impossible catch, and as a GB fan I am more than aware of what he could do before wiping his *ss on the posts, for which a lot has to be said and can arguably put him in the discussion there too. But to claim he had the better peak beyond doubt isn't so much debatable as it is incorrect. 

Good thing no one said that. 😉

 

[Soko]

On 8/12/2020 at 2:58 PM, OkeyDoke21 said:

The stat compiler train comes from your reasoning of saying he has the better argument for greater career, but not the same argument for greater peak, because he was insanely consistent.  I don't understand where the consistency is taking away from the peak.  Just because he sustained a high level longer, means his highest level wasn't as high?  I think he has the better argument in both cases.  I apologize if I'm interpreting that wrong, I just wasn't sure how that was supposed to be taken.

Because Moss’ knocks are more representative in his career than they are his peak. His peak ability while playing at his best was much greater than his career ended up being. That’s where that statement comes from, no need to take it as an attack against Rice.

On 8/12/2020 at 2:58 PM, OkeyDoke21 said:

I just think you're criminally underselling the level of player Rice was at his best, in comparison to Moss. 

Lol. I don’t think I said anything that “criminally undersells” JR, I think you’re just taking things that way. 

[Hunter2_1]

On 8/12/2020 at 6:23 PM, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I feel like my opinion is a hybrid of others.

Jerry Rice is a 100 definitely. No question about it.

Current WR's, I don't think any of them break a 90 or 93, because none of them, not even Deandre Hopkins, come close to what prime Randy Moss was. None of them even come close to prime Calvin Johnson, for that matter.

My top 5:

1. Deandre Hopkins
2. Michael Thomas
3. Julio Jones
4. Davante Adams
5. Amari Cooper

This is what I'm saying.

 

Although I did have a few breaking 90. 

[BlaqOptic]

On 7/28/2020 at 7:45 PM, mse326 said:

Do you rank on anything other than measurables?

This dude would've had AB at like an 85 because he wasn't tall enough.

[Kiwibrown]

On 7/29/2020 at 10:51 PM, MWil23 said:

Jerry Rice was the GOAT, and I really don't care what anyone else thinks about that, they're just wrong. Cut his career in half and he has over 100 TD and over 10,000 yards in an era where illegal contact wasn't a thing and QB's weren't really protected by the rules, thus inflating the passing game.

bu he wasnt tall and cool. 

[Kiwibrown]

At their peak

Rice 100
Moss 99
OBJ 97
Calvin 98
Julio 98
Holt 98
 

[evilflamingo]

On 9/5/2020 at 4:06 AM, Kiwibrown said:

At their peak

Rice 100
Moss 99
OBJ 97
Calvin 98
Julio 98
Holt 98
 

Trying to figure out what kind of scale you're using and why? 🤔In a world where the difference between Jerry Rice and Odell Beckham is just three points and Randy Moss and Torry Holt is separated by a single point, I would have to guess you have someone like Peter Warrick at 90? 

I agree with @Hunter2_1's line of thinking that the gaps needs to be much wider. 

 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

7 hours ago, evilflamingo said:

Trying to figure out what kind of scale you're using and why? 🤔In a world where the difference between Jerry Rice and Odell Beckham is just three points and Randy Moss and Torry Holt is separated by a single point, I would have to guess you have someone like Peter Warrick at 90? 

I agree with @Hunter2_1's line of thinking that the gaps needs to be much wider. 

 

The Madden scale. 

[Kiwibrown]

8 hours ago, evilflamingo said:

Trying to figure out what kind of scale you're using and why? 🤔In a world where the difference between Jerry Rice and Odell Beckham is just three points and Randy Moss and Torry Holt is separated by a single point, I would have to guess you have someone like Peter Warrick at 90? 

I agree with @Hunter2_1's line of thinking that the gaps needs to be much wider. 

 

Is the difference between peak holt and peak moss thay much? 

Is the difference between peak rice and OBJ  thay much? Rice's peak went over a decade objs was about 2 years.