NFL General Discussion

[DawgX]

3 hours ago, dawgdish said:

I agree. Let's be honest, we'll probably get creamed by the 49ers either way anyway. Why risk exacerbating the shoulder injury now?

Watson playing is about the only way we stand a chance. But yeah, we likely lose with him playing anyway. Without him? Most likely will be an absolute beat down.

[roger murdock]

19 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

How on earth is the team catching any flack for this?
 

Baker chose to play.  He could have declined, had surgery, protected his value.  Like, why the nonsensical revisionist history? 
 

The team cleared both players to play, the players made choices based on how they felt.  

Baker also hurt his non-throwing shoulder.  I’m no expert, but I’m assuming non-throwing vs throwing is relevant for a guy who has to throw something, no?

If you just want to rant, you do you bb, but just say so that way the rest of us don’t have to pretend you’re trying to make a sound point.

It’s about incentive

 

Watson has zero incentive to try. He gets all of his money if he’s good, bad, healthy, terrible, successful, disastrous 

Baker HAD to play. He wasn’t under contract the next year. A good season vs sitting out was easily worth $100M or more. He toughed it out and got burned

 

In both situations the Browns created perverse incentives where the self interest of the player didn’t align with the self interest of the team. 
 

Rather than telling Baker -“ hey we got you, heal up, we have the highest paid backup in the NFL, we’ll be fine if you sit 4 weeks” we made it clear he needed to perform at a high level or he was gone. Instead we wasted a season playing an obviously hobbled player. I felt at the time this was strategic as Stef and Berry wanted their own gig and saw an off-ramp 

 

Then with Watson we gave him everything he could ever dream of with no performance or character related incentives. He’s injury prone. He’s a quitter. And he’s a pervert. He’s precisely the person you use incentives to motivate. It would have been smarter to offer him a Mahomes deal with less guaranteed and wayyyyy more upside if he performed rather than giving a bad actor a blank check. 
 

the common ground is Browns incompetence and players acting out of self interest. But the circumstances and what’s behind player behavior is the opposite 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 hour ago, roger murdock said:

It’s about incentive

 

Watson has zero incentive to try. He gets all of his money if he’s good, bad, healthy, terrible, successful, disastrous 

Baker HAD to play. He wasn’t under contract the next year. A good season vs sitting out was easily worth $100M or more. He toughed it out and got burned

 

He absolutely was under contract the following season.  They’d already picked up his 5th year option.

1 hour ago, roger murdock said:

In both situations the Browns created perverse incentives where the self interest of the player didn’t align with the self interest of the team. 
 

Rather than telling Baker -“ hey we got you, heal up, we have the highest paid backup in the NFL, we’ll be fine if you sit 4 weeks” we made it clear he needed to perform at a high level or he was gone. Instead we wasted a season playing an obviously hobbled player. I felt at the time this was strategic as Stef and Berry wanted their own gig and saw an off-ramp 

Well this isn’t correct either. He tore his rotator cuff which required surgery to repair.  “Go sit 4 weeks and heal up” wasn’t a thing. It was play or have surgery.

Additionally, teams don’t decided if injured players play, the player does.  
 

To the rest of it, that’s speculation at best, perhaps just a creative story to push whatever narrative you’d like to believe.  There’s literally no factual basis for any of it that I’m aware of.  Happy to be proven wrong though.

1 hour ago, roger murdock said:

 

Then with Watson we gave him everything he could ever dream of with no performance or character related incentives. He’s injury prone. He’s a quitter. And he’s a pervert. He’s precisely the person you use incentives to motivate. It would have been smarter to offer him a Mahomes deal with less guaranteed and wayyyyy more upside if he performed rather than giving a bad actor a blank check. 

 

I’m not going to pump up Watson, I’ve made it clear I think he’s a POS. 
 

I also believe he’s a guy who played with a partially collapsed lung previously.  The only games he’s missed due to injury are related to the ACL and this iirc.  
 

I’m firmly in the “we’ll see how this thing plays out” camp.  He’s missed all of one game with an injury that a ortho surgeon states takes 2-6 weeks to heal from.  Maybe he misses more, we’ll see.  I don’t think a QB missing 2 games (if he can’t go Sunday) because the pain from the contusion on their rotator cuff ont heir throwing shoulder that limits their ability to throw is wild.  That’s what literally any reasonable person without an agenda would say as it literally fits the recovery timeline presented by medical personnel.

1 hour ago, roger murdock said:

 

the common ground is Browns incompetence and players acting out of self interest. But the circumstances and what’s behind player behavior is the opposite 

Yes, players have the ability to make decisions for themselves.  Baker made his choice, Watson is making his and it’s objectively the correct decision.  He’s not playing injured and allowing his body to recover to a point he feels comfortable. Only a psychopath or someone with an agenda would suggest another person proceed differently.

[dawgdish]

3 hours ago, roger murdock said:

Baker HAD to play. He wasn’t under contract the next year. A good season vs sitting out was easily worth $100M or more. He toughed it out and got burned

Baker strikes me as the guy with the fire in the belly to play if humanly possible no matter what the financial incentive situation

[candyman93]

 

[candyman93]

I think it’s fair to say Baker is an “okay” QB. In the Derek Carr career path.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

16 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

I think it’s fair to say Baker is an “okay” QB. In the Derek Carr career path.

I think he’s a guy who’s gonna play a long time and compile some decent career stats.  
 

Not sure he’s a guy who’s ever gonna lead a team deep into the playoffs or win consistently against good teams.

He’s always done just enough against bad teams to make you think he might be the dude.

[candyman93]

1 minute ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I think he’s a guy who’s gonna play a long time and compile some decent career stats.  
 

Not sure he’s a guy who’s ever gonna lead a team deep into the playoffs or win consistently against good teams.

He’s always done just enough against bad teams to make you think he might be the dude.

This is who he is.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/8664/ryan-fitzpatrick

[candyman93]

Wow Jets copied us and beat the eagles with tremendous defense

Edited October 15, 2023 by candyman93

[JDD]

72 Dolphins open their champagne 

[candyman93]

Key to beating Indy is stopping the run.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

18 minutes ago, JDD said:

72 Dolphins open their champagne 

*prune juice at this point 

[DawgX]

4 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

Key to beating Indy is stopping the run.

Minshew is capable of playing well.

I'd say there's no excuse to lose that game, but I don't trust Walker whatsoever.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

16 minutes ago, DawgX said:

Minshew is capable of playing well.

I'd say there's no excuse to lose that game, but I don't trust Walker whatsoever.

If Walker is starting the Colts have a notable advantage at QB.  It’s not close.

[sdrawkcab321]

Patriots losing gives me so much joy. Belichick so desperately wanted to have a team like this that he could scheme is way into success. And now this is the results. Turns out he’s not that good without the goat that he wanted to kick out the door.