Jakuvious Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 21 minutes ago, BayRaider said: So Henry went from 1st to 13th of stacked boxes thanks to Tannehil, good to know. Most of those stacked boxes came against Mariota last year. 4 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: He went from 5th to 13th, and that's still with a couple weeks left. I'll just list Henry's week-by-week SB% last year (Tannehill became starter week 7): Week 1: 48% (3rd highest) Week 2: 20% Week 3: 24% Week 4: 74%(by far #1) Week 5: 30% Week 6: 20% --- Tannehill named starter --- Week 7: N/A (?) Week 8: 31% (7th highest) Week 9: 54% (4th highest) Week 10: 17% Week 11: BYE Week 12: 32% Week 13: 15% Week 14: 72% (somehow 2nd highest to Benny Snell at 81% lol) Week 15: 52% (3rd highest) Week 16: N/A (didn't play) Week 17: 41% I could go back and tally the average of Weeks 1-6 compared to 7-17, but I think it's pretty obvious that he actually faced more stacked boxes once Tannehill became starter. Can we agree on that? https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/rushing/2019/REG/17#percent-eight-defenders Stacked boxes are a bad argument to use on either side. Stacked boxes are the result of formation, not quality of passing game. If the Chiefs run out in 22 personnel, even though they have Mahomes, CEH is going to see a stacked box. If the Titans run out in 10 personnel, Henry or not, they're not seeing a stacked box. That's how a guy like Benny Snell gets that high. They aren't trying to stop Benny Snell, Snell probably just ran largely when they were in heavy offensive personnel. More meaningful is how many men are in the box compared to the offensive personnel. 7 in the box against 10 personnel is the defense gameplanning to stop the RB more than 8 men in the box against 22 personnel is. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 When Lamar Jackson leads the Ravens to the playoffs and rolls off 4 in a row starting tonight, he'll be in the conversation. Right @AFlaccoSeagulls? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 1 minute ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Come on....lol even if the difference was "just Kelce", you're talking about what is arguably THE BEST pass catcher in the NFL compared to nobodies. That's why I said, it still is a big difference. But I think it's fair to say the gap between Kelce and Tonyan could be offset by the Packers having a better LT, LG, C, RG, and RT the majority of the year (when Schwartz was in we'd have had the plus at RT.) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted December 14, 2020 Author Share Posted December 14, 2020 1 minute ago, MWil23 said: When Lamar Jackson leads the Ravens to the playoffs and rolls off 4 in a row starting tonight, he'll be in the conversation. Right @AFlaccoSeagulls? He probably thinks Lamar is the 5th best QB in the league..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Jakuvious said: More meaningful is how many men are in the box compared to the offensive personnel. 7 in the box against 10 personnel is the defense gameplanning to stop the RB more than 8 men in the box against 22 personnel is. Is there a site that tracks that? That would be very interesting to look at and yeah I would also agree with that. I'm doing the best with the stats I have access to lol 1 minute ago, MWil23 said: When Lamar Jackson leads the Ravens to the playoffs and rolls off 4 in a row starting tonight, he'll be in the conversation. Right @AFlaccoSeagulls? Nope. But after Baker Mayfield throws 4 TD's against the #1 defense in the NFL he will be I'll make sure of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 Just now, BayRaider said: He probably thinks Lamar is the 5th best QB in the league..... Hard to judge Lamar right now. Start of this year I would've put him #1 or #2. At this point, I probably wouldn't have him inside of the top maybe 7-8, I don't even know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 1 minute ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Nope. But after Baker Mayfield throws 4 TD's against the #1 defense in the NFL he will be I'll make sure of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted December 14, 2020 Author Share Posted December 14, 2020 Just now, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Hard to judge Lamar right now. Start of this year I would've put him #1 or #2. At this point, I probably wouldn't have him inside of the top maybe 7-8, I don't even know. Why in the world would you have him #1 or #2 entering the season? He had one great year. One. Mahomes and Wilson were coming off two monster seasons in a row entering 2020. And yes he's probably around #9 right now, until he can prove he can take over games purely passing with no legs necessary. Kyler can do this. He was a phenomenal pocket passer coming out of college. Lamar hasn't really shown it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 15 hours ago, ET80 said: But he's had eight games over 100 with three to go, and his lowest yardage game (57) came with two TDs. His worst game statistically was 15/60 last week vs Cleveland - where the Browns gave him the Mahomes treatment, ran the ball at an obscene rate to keep him on the sideline. 2k/20 is in the cards with a Detroit/Green Bay/Houston final slate - he needs 191 Rush YPG to break Eric Dickerson's 2,105 yards. Anyone else, I'd say it's a long shot, but I could absolutely see Henry averaging 195 to close out the year. Henry might not MVP - in fact, I'm certain he won't. But, be needs to get votes, he needs OPOY and he needs to be ahead of Ryan Tannehill for sure - Henry makes Tannehill, not the other way around. I hate this logic, for the record. If he's not the MVP, why should he get votes? They don't vote on a first, second, third, etc. Everyone gets one vote. If he's not the MVP, and we all agree on that, there's no reason he should get any votes. It's the same as when people act shocked Wilson hasn't gotten a vote before. Why should he have? He's never been the best QB, let alone player, for a full season. That SHOULD equal zero votes. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Is there a site that tracks that? That would be very interesting to look at and yeah I would also agree with that. I'm doing the best with the stats I have access to lol I don't think so. I know men in the box are tracked, I know personnel grouping tendencies are tracked. I doubt anywhere tracks the two combined. Basically I'm telling you both your arguments are bad without providing a productive alternative lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 1 minute ago, BayRaider said: Why in the world would you have him #1 or #2 entering the season? He had one great year. One. Mahomes and Wilson were coming off two monster seasons in a row entering 2020. And yes he's probably around #9 right now, until he can prove he can take over games purely passing with no legs necessary. Kyler can do this. He was a phenomenal pocket passer coming out of college. Lamar hasn't really shown it yet. Unanimous MVP, and also I was a slave of the moment, idk. Even after Week 1 I would've had him #2 to Russell Wilson due to how good he looked throwing the ball, especially deep. He led the league in passing TD's last year and was just phenomenal in every aspect. Not sure what else you could've wanted. 2 minutes ago, MWil23 said: NO WE'RE GONNA GET CREAMED! 1 minute ago, Jakuvious said: I don't think so. I know men in the box are tracked, I know personnel grouping tendencies are tracked. I doubt anywhere tracks the two combined. Basically I'm telling you both your arguments are bad without providing a productive alternative lol. The high-view point I'm making is that Tannehill's difference wasn't significant in how defenses approached stopping Tennessee's offense. It still isn't. Teams don't gameplan around Tannehill, they do it around Henry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 9 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Is there a site that tracks that? That would be very interesting to look at and yeah I would also agree with that. I'm doing the best with the stats I have access to lol No. Warren Sharp tracks personnel usage for each team, but doesn't track anything with regards to the plays run by either team out of those formations so far as I know. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: The high-view point I'm making is that Tannehill's difference wasn't significant in how defenses approached stopping Tennessee's offense. It still isn't. Teams don't gameplan around Tannehill, they do it around Henry. But now, they punish teams that do that. Before, you sell out to stop Henry, they try to pass and fail, so you keep selling out to stop Henry. Now, teams selling out to do that actually benefits Tennessee because they can take advantage. They have a QB that can run play action and throw deep. That can check out of plays, read the run blitz, and call something to counter. Henry without Tannehill, the Titans are a mediocre at best football team. Henry with Tannehill is a super bowl contender. That's a huge difference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefs_5627 Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Forge said: No. Warren Sharp tracks personnel usage for each team, but doesn't track anything with regards to the plays run by either team out of those formations so far as I know. Every. Single. Time. Anyone references Warren Sharp I read it as Warren Sapp and am always surprised that a big doofus like that breaks down stats til I reread the name. Anyways, carry on with the thread 😎 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 Just now, Jakuvious said: But now, they punish teams that do that. Before, you sell out to stop Henry, they try to pass and fail, so you keep selling out to stop Henry. Now, teams selling out to do that actually benefits Tennessee because they can take advantage. They have a QB that can run play action and throw deep. That can check out of plays, read the run blitz, and call something to counter. Henry without Tannehill, the Titans are a mediocre at best football team. Henry with Tannehill is a super bowl contender. That's a huge difference. ehhhhh I don't think so. A playoff team, certainly. And yeah, they're a more dangerous team now but they would be a dangerous team with literally any mediocre QB back there. We're comparing Tannehill to actual trash. None of those previous QB's are even in the NFL anymore lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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