BR Article - How Matt Patricia's Patriot Way Went the Wrong Way in Detroit

[Karnage84]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2917777-how-matt-patricias-patriot-way-went-the-wrong-way-in-detroit?fbclid=IwAR2tmwTwGXjnJtM3hyUWOGngseWFtlV1SuqUwWSlc16DkPyjSNlK7j3ogXc

Interesting perspective. Especially the thoughts from Ricky Jean-Francois since he played with Patricia in NE and in DET. 

[Karnage84]

To RJF's point, the principal issue has been (on the player side)

- Guys not buying in

- Guys not staying late watching film

- Guys not happy practicing as hard as they were

 

At this point, 3 years in... Patricia is still accountable as is Quinn. For everyone wondering why we kept bringing in NE guys, it should be painfully obvious why from this article. They knew the culture and were willing to put in the extra that it seems a lot of other guys weren't in an attempt to be successful. At this point though, they should have gotten their guys in place and fixed the issues that came up during the transition. 

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Karnage84

[Nnivolcm]

Quote

The Patriot Way isn't for everybody, especially when the results aren't coming. One agent says that after one phone conversation with Patricia, his veteran free-agent client decided to sign with another team. He knew he wasn’t interested in that style of coaching.

That really caught my eye. We know Patricia drove talent out of Detroit. We can only speculate on the talent he kept from coming in.

[LionArkie]

21 hours ago, Nnivolcm said:

That really caught my eye. We know Patricia drove talent out of Detroit. We can only speculate on the talent he kept from coming in.

I saw that as well.  And the fact you're working your butt off for a 6 win season, while others around the league are doing less and being more successful? That can't be encouraging to would be free agent signings.

Edited November 14, 2020 by LionArkie

[BigC421/]

Without reading the article 

Bob Quinn has done a terrible job of drafting on all phases.  Top 10 picks have been blown,  2nd rd picks have been completely disregarded and thrown in the garbage.  Some had the false idea Quinn was good at identifying late rd talent early in his tenure.  This has been proven false over time.  Quinn’s drafting has been a complete failure.  
 

Bob Quinn has done a terrible job signing free agents.  Year after year he has overpaid for average non impact players.  
 

As a result the roster is not very talented and probably would not be winning a lot of games regardless who was coaching.   However I suspect MP is highly involved on the talent acquisition front since his arrival and is equally guilty considering his past connections to so many .

This is all of courses without even getting into the constant coaching blunders and personality conflicts which have ensued on MP’s end.   In summary the reason it’s failed on such a large scale is because they’ve failed at every small scale along the way.  They’ve done nothing well

[LionArkie]

17 minutes ago, BigC421/ said:

Without reading the article 

Bob Quinn has done a terrible job of drafting on all phases.  Top 10 picks have been blown,  2nd rd picks have been completely disregarded and thrown in the garbage.  Some had the false idea Quinn was good at identifying late rd talent early in his tenure.  This has been proven false over time.  Quinn’s drafting has been a complete failure.  
 

Bob Quinn has done a terrible job signing free agents.  Year after year he has overpaid for average non impact players.  
 

As a result the roster is not very talented and probably would not be winning a lot of games regardless who was coaching.   However I suspect MP is highly involved on the talent acquisition front since his arrival and is equally guilty considering his past connections to so many .

This is all of courses without even getting into the constant coaching blunders and personality conflicts which have ensued on MP’s end.   In summary the reason it’s failed on such a large scale is because they’ve failed at every small scale along the way.  They’ve done nothing well

Yeah, the article really wasn't about a lot of what you posted outside of MP and talent acquisition (like one sentence) and personality conflicts upon his arrival. It was a perspective from multiple players. Some were former NE Patriots and some who were not and a very good read. ***Edit*** it was about what went wrong upon his arrival and different cultures.

Edited November 15, 2020 by LionArkie

[Karnage84]

8 hours ago, BigC421/ said:

Without reading the article 

Bob Quinn has done a terrible job of drafting on all phases.  Top 10 picks have been blown,  2nd rd picks have been completely disregarded and thrown in the garbage.  Some had the false idea Quinn was good at identifying late rd talent early in his tenure.  This has been proven false over time.  Quinn’s drafting has been a complete failure.  
 

Bob Quinn has done a terrible job signing free agents.  Year after year he has overpaid for average non impact players.  
 

As a result the roster is not very talented and probably would not be winning a lot of games regardless who was coaching.   However I suspect MP is highly involved on the talent acquisition front since his arrival and is equally guilty considering his past connections to so many .

This is all of courses without even getting into the constant coaching blunders and personality conflicts which have ensued on MP’s end.   In summary the reason it’s failed on such a large scale is because they’ve failed at every small scale along the way.  They’ve done nothing well

Maybe read the article....

[diehardlionfan]

On 11/13/2020 at 6:22 PM, Karnage84 said:

To RSJ's point, the principal issue has been (on the player side)

- Guys not buying in

- Guys not staying late watching film

- Guys not happy practicing as hard as they were

 

At this point, 3 years in... Patricia is still accountable as is Quinn. For everyone wondering why we kept bringing in NE guys, it should be painfully obvious why from this article. They knew the culture and were willing to put in the extra that it seems a lot of other guys weren't in an attempt to be successful. At this point though, they should have gotten their guys in place and fixed the issues that came up during the transition. 

 

[diehardlionfan]

Pretty much what I thought. You simply can’t be successful in any aspect of life without flexibility and Patricia is an ineffective one trick pony.

He arrived on the scene and displayed a dogmatic dictatorial style which some players need and like but for the vast majority of people they just shut down. The biggest flaw in Patricia is his lack of head coaching experience. Had he more experience he would’ve known from the start you earn respect and a rookie head coach has to prove himself.

As for comments from current players, what does anyone expect. They will publicly support the coach and claim improvement. They aren’t stupid.

I just can’t wait for the Lions to move on.

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by diehardlionfan

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

I've been leaning towards wanting Patricia replaced, especially after last week, but articles like this make me glad he's here.

The fact that he has to look to former NE players to find professional athletes that won't complain about having to practice hard and stay late to watch film speaks volumes.

I don't want to support millionaires that complain about having to work hard. If those are his flaws, I hope they commit to Quinn and Patricia for another 5+ years to build this thing properly. Building around children and cowards won't get it done.

[LionArkie]

8 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

I've been leaning towards wanting Patricia replaced, especially after last week, but articles like this make me glad he's here.

The fact that he has to look to former NE players to find professional athletes that won't complain about having to practice hard and stay late to watch film speaks volumes.

I don't want to support millionaires that complain about having to work hard. If those are his flaws, I hope they commit to Quinn and Patricia for another 5+ years to build this thing properly. Building around children and cowards won't get it done.

I get your point, but at the same point in time I think the players have a valid counter point.  There are other millionaires on other teams enjoying their environment, you know like being able to listen to music before a game, and have fun in what they do while they make money and are more successful than the Lions.  They were also treated like professionals in the way they were spoken to by other teams coaching staff. Yes he brought hard work, but he also removed the fun.  Removing the fun seemed to create the issue.  For instance, showing the players the Cam Newton footage. When reading this, I really thought about the difference between MP and Pete Carroll where he encourages the environment the players want.

Edited November 16, 2020 by LionArkie

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

51 minutes ago, LionArkie said:

I get your point, but at the same point in time I think the players have a valid counter point.  There are other millionaires on other teams enjoying their environment, you know like being able to listen to music before a game, and have fun in what they do while they make money and are more successful than the Lions.  They were also treated like professionals in the way they were spoken to by other teams coaching staff. Yes he brought hard work, but he also removed the fun.  Removing the fun seemed to create the issue.  For instance, showing the players the Cam Newton footage. When reading this, I really thought about the difference between MP and Pete Carroll where he encourages the environment the players want.

I get it, but I think the whole "removing the fun" thing is overblown. Why would ANY players choose to sign here if it was that miserable?

I guess I tend to think about my own background, but I'll never defend players because their head coach sets rules. I don't care if the players think it's less fun. I don't care if the players don't want to stay late. You signed that contract. You're getting paid millions to do it. Do it. I've been though some miserable environments and was never paid millions. I knew what I signed up for. So should they.

Patricia is undoubtedly structuring this environment the way things were structured in NE, which just so happens to be the most successful football franchise over the last 15ish years. Sure, there's more than one way to structure and organization, but this is one of them. If these children won't buy in, keep Patricia around and let him find the ones that will.

[LionArkie]

6 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

I get it, but I think the whole "removing the fun" thing is overblown. Why would ANY players choose to sign here if it was that miserable?

I guess I tend to think about my own background, but I'll never defend players because their head coach sets rules. I don't care if the players think it's less fun. I don't care if the players don't want to stay late. You signed that contract. You're getting paid millions to do it. Do it. I've been though some miserable environments and was never paid millions. I knew what I signed up for. So should they.

Patricia is undoubtedly structuring this environment the way things were structured in NE, which just so happens to be the most successful football franchise over the last 15ish years. Sure, there's more than one way to structure and organization, but this is one of them. If these children won't buy in, keep Patricia around and let him find the ones that will.

The ones they are having luck with signing are former NE players or more higher risk, higher reward type players like HV.  As the article stated, there were players who wouldn't come here for those reasons. I believe Richard Sherman, who I don't think anyone could argue against his work ethic, performance or success was said to not come here due to the environment MP was setting. At the end of the day, you are only as good as your the labor you have.  If I, as a professional, can go to an organization with a more laid back atmosphere, who has more success for the same pay, why wouldn't I? MP has yet to be successful. He was a rookie coach that made these issues.

The sad thing now is it seems the team has bought into it, according to the article, but I think the damage is done.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/30/why-richard-sherman-turned-down-millions-to-play-for-the-49ers.html

[LionArkie]

*Richard Sherman, Darius Slay and Okodah would have made a very nice secondary.

[LionArkie]

Another point the article brought up that I have been thinking about for a while is the injuries due to lack of recovery time.  I have been wondering if this has led to the crazy amount of injuries the Lions have experienced since MP has been here. Or at least what seems to be a crazy amount of injuries.

Edited November 16, 2020 by LionArkie