Indians to drop nickname

[beekay414]

3 minutes ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/evangerstmann/2020/09/13/cancel-culture-is-only-getting-worse/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2020/07/17/has-twitters-cancel-culture-gone-too-far/5445804002/

You can find more if you want. It's easy.

If a certain letter is next to your name, the mob will quickly forget. See moron PM above us. 

I'm going to respect the forum's rules and not go further. 

lol

That's a whole lot of conjecture, homie. 

[BobbyPhil1781]

2 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

lol

That's a whole lot of conjecture, homie. 

Hey, feel free to believe whatever you'd like! No problems with that on my end. The evidence is there and if you don't like it, great. Nothing wrong with that. 

[BobbyPhil1781]

8 minutes ago, Forge said:

Didn't we do away with the Domino theory in like 1950? It's crazy that we've actually gone backward in time at this point

Guess we'll find out soon enough. Might not be next year or the year after. Maybe not even 5 years down but that is my opinion on where this is headed although I did exaggerate, admittedly. I think inanimate objects are safe. 

[beekay414]

Just now, BobbyPhil1781 said:

Hey, feel free to believe whatever you'd like! No problems with that on my end. The evidence is there and if you don't like it, great. Nothing wrong with that. 

There are different levels of "evidence" though. Some of that is warranted while others are likely a reach without more information. That happens in all walks of life. People just read into it what they want but the going to the extreme like your post about the Vikings and Buccaneers, despite years of evidence against it, accomplishes nothing and comes off exactly like the stuff your against. It's okay to ***** on one end but not the other? Why is that? Why does one side get to land the moral ground laws? Both sides want their cake and to eat it too. We can accomplish a lot if we just stopped taking everything to extremes and start looking at things in the gray areas. 

[Forge]

1 minute ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

Hey, feel free to believe whatever you'd like! No problems with that on my end. The evidence is there and if you don't like it, great. Nothing wrong with that. 

So serious question...what does the twitter PC cancel culture have to do with a battle that has been fought by people  for decades? I'm talking this specific item. Throw all the other stuff out because it's not applicable. This battle to have the name Indians removed (and Chief Wahoo, which obviously was previously done away with) has been going on since the 60's and 70's. We are talking 50 years of protesting. This has always been on the board of AIM's target list.  This isn't a new thing. Did the twitter cancel culture give it extra oomph? Maybe...but I'm not sure that's a bad thing in this specific instance. I don't believe that all of these things can be considered the same, which is the trap I feel like far too many people fall into. 

[beekay414]

2 minutes ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

Guess we'll find out soon enough. Might not be next year or the year after. Maybe not even 5 years down but that is my opinion on where this is headed although I did exaggerate, admittedly. I think inanimate objects are safe. 

The only recent changes I can think of in the sports world are North Dakota, Washington and now Cleveland.

Also, here's an article that shows DECADES of Native American name changes that weren't a mass result of modern day cancel culture.

https://www.thewrap.com/sports-teams-dumped-racist-names-mascots-indians-redskins/

[beekay414]

2 minutes ago, Forge said:

So serious question...what does the twitter PC cancel culture have to do with a battle that has been fought by people  for decades? I'm talking this specific item. Throw all the other stuff out because it's not applicable. This battle to have the name Indians removed (and Chief Wahoo, which obviously was previously done away with) has been going on since the 60's and 70's. We are talking 50 years of protesting. This has always been on the board of AIM's target list.  This isn't a new thing. Did the twitter cancel culture give it extra oomph? Maybe...but I'm not sure that's a bad thing in this specific instance. I don't believe that all of these things can be considered the same, which is the trap I feel like far too many people fall into. 

Yep. Every name change that has happened in sports thus far is from decades of push back. This attributing it to "cancel culture" and "wokeness" is vastly misguided and, honestly, lazy arguing.

[Thelonebillsfan]

1 hour ago, beekay414 said:

Yep. Every name change that has happened in sports thus far is from decades of push back. This attributing it to "cancel culture" and "wokeness" is vastly misguided and, honestly, lazy arguing.

The Braves have been scaling back their imagery for the last 5 years in preparation of this happening as well lol, they're even going to scrap the Tomahawk soon. The idea that this is some new thing is just so reductive, I've been hearing this as long as I've been alive. I'm so sick to death of "cancel culture" talk like who the hell is getting "cancelled" here? A sports team might have to change it's name. I'm sorry I really don't give 2 ****s about that because it's so, utterly, totally, meaningless to peoples lives and lived experiences that people who are saying it being changed is some affront to their personal values I cannot take seriously on any rational level.

People are starving to death, we're in the midst of a global pandemic that's not slowing down at all, spare me the sanctimony about the freaking multi billion dollar sports franchise having to change it's name.

Twitter is not real life, cancel culture is not a real thing, this is something we've been hashing out for 50 years, the WFT arguments started seriously heating up before facebook was a thing. I get that the internet and modern media has destroyed our conception of time and relativity, but these are not new arguments, and this is not a new or particularly meaningful debate and if this is the hill you're trying to die on I'm sorry I really don't care.

The free speech of literal billionaires and their marketing money is not at risk because people want the name of a sports franchise changed. If anything this is great for business! They can market a whole new line of stuff for people to buy. WFT jerseys and gear and stuff have been selling like hotcakes just for the pure novelty of it all. Nobody is harmed in any way from changing it.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Thelonebillsfan

[Thelonebillsfan]

If you want to talk about "nuance" that's stupid and pointless. We're not talking about solving world hunger here, we're talking about one team, with one issue, with one specific concept in mind about changing it's name. I don't care, want to hear about, or think it's especially pertinent to try and find some reductive way around that by making everything into a macro battle for the soul of "western society" or whatever incredibly modern and ahistorical concept of what you view as culture is in your head. Cause we're not talking about any of that because that's not what this conversation is about.

We're talking about the Cleveland baseball team changing it's name, that's what we're talking  about, that's what the issue is, that's what's pertinent here. Anything else is just bad faith nonsense, the kind of thing children do when they're arguing. If we're having a conversation about one topic, say, world hunger, we're not going to also bring up 50 other horrible things or perceived horrible things to contrast against it, we're talking about one thing. So lets talk about this one thing.

edit - cause honestly there's nothing more pointless than arguing the dialectic of a freaking SPORTS TEAM franchise like what are we even doing here.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Thelonebillsfan

[Thelonebillsfan]

And yes, in my opinion, the name should have been changed ages ago it's always been used in a derogatory manner by the team itself until very, very recently.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Thelonebillsfan

[BobbyPhil1781]

1 hour ago, beekay414 said:

. We can accomplish a lot if we just stopped taking everything to extremes and start looking at things in the gray areas. 

This I fully agree with. Unfortunately it doesn't really follow with the times. 

[BobbyPhil1781]

1 hour ago, Forge said:

So serious question...what does the twitter PC cancel culture have to do with a battle that has been fought by people  for decades? I'm talking this specific item. Throw all the other stuff out because it's not applicable. This battle to have the name Indians removed (and Chief Wahoo, which obviously was previously done away with) has been going on since the 60's and 70's. We are talking 50 years of protesting. This has always been on the board of AIM's target list.  This isn't a new thing. Did the twitter cancel culture give it extra oomph? Maybe...but I'm not sure that's a bad thing in this specific instance. I don't believe that all of these things can be considered the same, which is the trap I feel like far too many people fall into. 

I was unaware this has been going on for decades. I, unknowingly, thought it was only a recent thing. Still, I feel we're going down a slope now and we'll see more in the future. How near? Not sure but I'm sure there will be at least rumblings soon unless there already is like there was with the Indians.

[Thelonebillsfan]

2 minutes ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

This I fully agree with. Unfortunately it doesn't really follow with the times. 

I mean it does if you just log off twitter. The idea that society has demonstrably changed in any real tangible way over the last 20 years other than discourse is more online poisoned now doesn't really bear out in any meaningful capacity.

[BobbyPhil1781]

1 hour ago, beekay414 said:

Yep. Every name change that has happened in sports thus far is from decades of push back. This attributing it to "cancel culture" and "wokeness" is vastly misguided and, honestly, lazy arguing.

 In sports, sure. I'll admit that now. When you start talking about the knitting community as ones to harbor racism, you start to lose me. 

[BobbyPhil1781]

3 minutes ago, Thelonebillsfan said:

I mean it does if you just log off twitter. The idea that society has demonstrably changed in any real tangible way over the last 20 years other than discourse is more online poisoned now doesn't really bear out in any meaningful capacity.

Glad I don't use Twitter!! I'd probably have many more instances then aside from what I read from a few news outlets lol.

I feel it's drastically changed though but it's subjective for sure. Mobs are far, far more apparent these days both online and in tangible instances. That's where it gets dangerous. Upset the hive and it's bad especially when the hive is emotionally unstable.