D82 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 1 hour ago, resilient part 2 said: Yes I get it there is an injury difference but if you need me to go back what about Roy Williams the defensive back he was considered a big-time playmaker . there are others as well just trying to make a point, then there is the cornerback from LSU whose name I shall not mention who the Cowboys move up for in a top 5 to get he was also a playmaker Mo seemed to do well with a change of scenery in New York this year...but again, hampered by injuries. That's something you can't predict, at least in his case, as he was never an injury prone player in college if I remember correctly. What killed Roy Williams, the defensive back, was losing Darren Woodson and the way offenses started playing. That's not really his fault. The game changed and as such basically took away what he was good at doing. I also don't really remember him being a turnover machine, more so just a big hitter. Give Jaylon a chance before writing him off, and go watch film on James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony7188 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 On 12/12/2017 at 12:22 PM, WizardHawk said: Rewinding a little...Desmond King. Remember how badly some of us wanted him? *sigh* He's playing awfully well in SD......errr LA I mean he does have Joey Bosa and Melvin Ingram coming off the edges for him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt79511 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 4 hours ago, resilient part 2 said: Yes I get it there is an injury difference but if you need me to go back what about Roy Williams the defensive back he was considered a big-time playmaker . there are others as well just trying to make a point, then there is the cornerback from LSU whose name I shall not mention who the Cowboys move up for in a top 5 to get he was also a playmaker The best defenses in the NFL tend to have playmakers at safety and linebacker. Edge/perimeter defenders (DE and CB) make the most money because they have to play one on one and their skill sets are rarer but middle of the field defenders are the guys who are gonna be around the ball the most. Just because we’ve missed on some picks at those positions in recent years doesn’t mean we can stop swinging. Roquan or Derwin would be a slam dunk IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 1 hour ago, matt79511 said: The best defenses in the NFL tend to have playmakers at safety and linebacker. Edge/perimeter defenders (DE and CB) make the most money because they have to play one on one and their skill sets are rarer but middle of the field defenders are the guys who are gonna be around the ball the most. Just because we’ve missed on some picks at those positions in recent years doesn’t mean we can stop swinging. Roquan or Derwin would be a slam dunk IMO. Depends who else we get to help out the front 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resilient part 2 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 6 hours ago, Desperado82 said: Mo seemed to do well with a change of scenery in New York this year...but again, hampered by injuries. That's something you can't predict, at least in his case, as he was never an injury prone player in college if I remember correctly. What killed Roy Williams, the defensive back, was losing Darren Woodson and the way offenses started playing. That's not really his fault. The game changed and as such basically took away what he was good at doing. I also don't really remember him being a turnover machine, more so just a big hitter. Give Jaylon a chance before writing him off, and go watch film on James. I m not writing off Jaylon, just saying a play-maker in college doesn't always equate to pone in the pros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resilient part 2 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 2 hours ago, matt79511 said: The best defenses in the NFL tend to have playmakers at safety and linebacker. Edge/perimeter defenders (DE and CB) make the most money because they have to play one on one and their skill sets are rarer but middle of the field defenders are the guys who are gonna be around the ball the most. Just because we’ve missed on some picks at those positions in recent years doesn’t mean we can stop swinging. Roquan or Derwin would be a slam dunk IMO. Not disagreeing with this and YES we need some play-makers. Just the idea that some of you guys are saying those particular players are a sure thing or close to it is what I am debating I guess. Carry on gents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D82 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 8 minutes ago, resilient part 2 said: I m not writing off Jaylon, just saying a play-maker in college doesn't always equate to pone in the pros. That's certainly fair to say, but that is the thing about the draft...ya never really do know for certain. Have to take what information you have and hedge your bet it'll work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt79511 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 12 hours ago, Calvert28 said: Depends who else we get to help out the front 7. I think we do something at NT in free agency at least. Dudes like Poe and Logan went for 1-year deals last year, so it seems like guys will be out there and teams won’t break the bank for them. Could be losing Hitchens though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt79511 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 11 hours ago, resilient part 2 said: Not disagreeing with this and YES we need some play-makers. Just the idea that some of you guys are saying those particular players are a sure thing or close to it is what I am debating I guess. Carry on gents. I think Roquan is probably a safer bet than Derwin to be fair. And it is kind of hard to trust this staff to get the most out of a DB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D82 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 1 hour ago, matt79511 said: I think Roquan is probably a safer bet than Derwin to be fair. And it is kind of hard to trust this staff to get the most out of a DB You're assuming this staff is still around next year...at least the defensive one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAPJ Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 I'm at a crossroads with what to draft on defense mainly because of the coaching staff. We don't seem to utilize our secondary in a way to make plays. If we get a different coaching staff, I would like to see what a lot of these guys can do in a different scheme. We have invested a lot over the last few years and everyone that leaves seems to step up their play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D82 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Couple different outcomes Option #1: 1st Round: Clelin Ferrell DE, Clemson 2nd Round: Dante Pettis WR, Washington 3rd Round: Dallas Goedert TE, South Dakota State 4th Round: Poona Ford DT, Texas 4th Round (comp): Jordan Thomas CB, Oklahoma 5th Round (comp): Bentley Spain OT, North Carolina 5th Round (comp): Fred Warner OLB, BYU 6th Round: Kamryn Pettway RB, Auburn 6th Round (comp): Khalid Hill FB, Michigan 7th Round: Wyatt Teller OG, Virginia Tech Option #2: 1st Round: Rashaan Evans LB, Alabama 2nd Round: Josh Jackson CB, Iowa 3rd Round: Hayden Hurst TE, South Carolina 4th Round: Allen Lazard WR, Iowa State 4th Round (comp): Royce Freeman RB, Oregon 5th Round (comp): Brandon Parker OT, North Carolina A&T 5th Round (comp): Cortez Broughton DT, Cincinnati 6th Round: Cece Jefferson DE, Florida 6th Round (comp): Riley Ferguson QB, Memphis 7th Round: Davontae Harris CB, Illinois State Option #3: 1st Round (via TEN): Roquan Smith OLB, Georgia 2nd Round: Josh Jackson CB, Iowa 2nd Round (via TEN): Anthony Miller WR, Memphis 3rd Round: Dallas Goedert TE, South Dakota State 4th Round: Marcus Davenport DE, UT-San Antonio 4th Round (comp): Poona Ford DT, Texas 5th Round (comp): David Bright OT, Stanford 5th Round (comp): Bo Scarborough RB, Alabama 6th Round: Auden Tate WR, Florida State 6th Round (comp): Kurt Benkert QB, Virginia 7th Round: Arrion Springs CB, Oregon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 On 12/13/2017 at 4:02 PM, Desperado82 said: What killed Roy Williams, the defensive back, was losing Darren Woodson and the way offenses started playing. That's not really his fault. The game changed and as such basically took away what he was good at doing. I also don't really remember him being a turnover machine, more so just a big hitter. I think you are being a little lazy with your evaluation. And the bold is interesting. Roy Williams is the closest thing to a ball hawk we've had in decades. He had 5 picks in his rookie year in 2002, and another 5 picks in 2006. Totaling 17 interceptions in that span, while Woodson retired in 2003. Prime Time Sanders had "only" 14 picks from '95-'99 as a Cowboy. Williams is 8th all time in franchise history for forced fumbles(2nd all-time among DBs), and the 9th DB all time in franchise history for fumble recoveries. Who has been better than Roy since? And remember he put up all these stats in about 5 years. Then the Manning\Brady era began coupled with him approaching 30 and it went downhill fast. I agree Woodson was beneficial but Roy continued doing well for about 3 years after Woodson left, and he is the closest thing to a ball hawk we've had in the last 30 years, while being one of the franchise's all time leaders in all turnover statistics. I think he was a tad bigger than just a hard hitter. He is better known on this site for his sudden decline and the embarrassment that followed, but for about 5 years he was one of our best turnover machines.... Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D82 Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 Four concussions will do that to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAPJ Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 On 12/13/2017 at 5:02 PM, Desperado82 said: Mo seemed to do well with a change of scenery in New York this year...but again, hampered by injuries. That's something you can't predict, at least in his case, as he was never an injury prone player in college if I remember correctly. What killed Roy Williams, the defensive back, was losing Darren Woodson and the way offenses started playing. That's not really his fault. The game changed and as such basically took away what he was good at doing. I also don't really remember him being a turnover machine, more so just a big hitter. Give Jaylon a chance before writing him off, and go watch film on James. Offenses changing definitely hurt Roy Williams, however in the right system today, I think he would be good as the Hybrid Lineback/Safety type role. It worked well for Mark Barron, couldnt see why Roy wouldnt find success in that same system. A lot of fans wanted to put him at a linebacker role but Tweeners werent the rave back then as they are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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