The Good, the Bad, the Gruden vs the Chargers

[big_palooka]

24 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Absolutely. Hard to argue that. I think the mid round picks of Maxx, Renfrow, and Moreau were all very very good. Not to mention Johnson has flashed on his brief time on the field. But I also think Abram and Ferrell will determine if it's a B or an A/A+. Ferrell I think will become at least a good NFL starter. Abram needs to get his head out of his *** and be used like Adams in the box and fulfill his potential, or he will bust due to his hot head.

Which make you wonder if Mayock had more influence on those later picks. The early round feels more like the tail wagging the dog personally. 

And as good as those players are, they are role players on a team starved for better talent. You can't miss on early picks and be successful 

[oakdb36]

51 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Absolutely. Hard to argue that.

Incredibly easy to argue. Go take a look at his coverage stats.

[big_palooka]

39 minutes ago, oakdb36 said:

Incredibly easy to argue. Go take a look at his coverage stats.

You'd argue Ferrell has had more impact for his team this far into their careers?

White is already becoming one of the best off ball blitzing LBs. He flashes game changing plays nearly every week. He's got some work to do in pass coverage, but there is little argument to his playmaking ability on the field. 

Even Bowles said he's in the right spots in their zone and it will come with more experience.

I'd venture a guess the Raiders would get off the field on 3rd down more with White at LB than Ferrell at DE. 

[oakdb36]

4 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

You'd argue Ferrell has had more impact for his team this far into their careers?

I'd argue the Raiders D wouldn't be better.

[big_palooka]

9 minutes ago, oakdb36 said:

I'd argue the Raiders D wouldn't be better.

You're right in that. They have two many holes. But White is at least a play maker going forward. Ferrell is nothing more than a role player. 

The defense needs a pass rusher, cover safety, 3T just to get back to average.

[oakdb36]

33 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

You're right in that. They have two many holes. But White is at least a play maker going forward. Ferrell is nothing more than a role player. 

The defense needs a pass rusher, cover safety, 3T just to get back to average.

If White keeps playing like he does in coverage, he'll be a role player soon enough. You're understating his level there. Amongst LBs, he's last in yards allowed with 596 yards. His 66 completions against is 2nd most in the league at any position, 82.5 comp% is 15th most at any position.

For comparison, Kwit has allowed 27 receptions for 249 yards on a 57.4 comp%. And he's not even known for being a good coverage LB. Ofc, he doesn't have 8 sacks so there's no flashy playmaking ability to push forward. He also didn't blitz 84 times like White did (16 for Kwit). Congrats to the Bucs coaching staff though, it's better to ask White to rush than to leave him in coverage.

Do you think the 7 sacks he has on Kwit made up for the 350 more yards he gave up in coverage?

Edited December 22, 2020 by oakdb36

[big_palooka]

13 minutes ago, oakdb36 said:

If White keeps playing like he does in coverage, he'll be a role player soon enough. You're understating his level there. Amongst LBs, he's last in yards allowed with 596 yards. His 66 completions against is 2nd most in the league at any position, 82.5 comp% is 15th most at any position.

For comparison, Kwit has allowed 27 receptions for 249 yards on a 57.4 comp%. And he's not even known for being a good coverage LB. Ofc, he doesn't have 8 sacks so there's no flashy playmaking ability to push forward. He also didn't blitz 84 times like White did (16 for Kwit). Congrats to the Bucs coaching staff though, it's better to ask White to rush than to leave him in coverage.

You pole 100 NFL GMs, coaches and the like and who do they take? I get White has struggled in coverage. But he's a young player still developing there. What he has shown is playmaking ability and an arrow that is pointing up. 

The point here is Ferrell was a bad pick at 4 overall. Hell, even Brian Burns who I said I'd take at 4 if you want to reach at pass rusher is a better player currently. 

Ferrel was a reach. They missed on pass rusher and the defense has paid because of it. Then they reached with Abram a player who can't cover when they needed coverage help. 

My points... the FO is making terrible decisions in the draft currently.

[oakdb36]

1 minute ago, big_palooka said:

You pole 100 NFL GMs, coaches and the like and who do they take? I get White has struggled in coverage. But he's a young player still developing there. What he has shown is playmaking ability and an arrow that is pointing up. 

The point here is Ferrell was a bad pick at 4 overall. Hell, even Brian Burns who I said I'd take at 4 if you want to reach at pass rusher is a better player currently. 

Ferrel was a reach. They missed on pass rusher and the defense has paid because of it. Then they reached with Abram a player who can't cover when they needed coverage help. 

My points... the FO is making terrible decisions in the draft currently.

My point was you bringing up White was a terrible example based on box score scouting.

[NCOUGHMAN]

1 hour ago, oakdb36 said:

My point was you bringing up White was a terrible example based on box score scouting.

How do they compare in availability?

kwik, white and Ferrell hell even our other fa lb

[NCOUGHMAN]

4 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Which make you wonder if Mayock had more influence on those later picks. The early round feels more like the tail wagging the dog personally. 

And as good as those players are, they are role players on a team starved for better talent. You can't miss on early picks and be successful 

He just got luck looking at my mock that year lol jk but there are parallels between both draft classes. Cute in the first round, try to be solid in the middle rounds. This time he just missed completely and he also didn’t peek at my mock lol. I think differently I like solid guys in the first and 2nd rounds then get cute the rest of the draft looking for diamonds in the rough 

[Humble_Beast]

White might be the best MLB in the NFL. Kwit has been okay, I’m a fan. He shown he is a starting MLB. much rather have a combo of 

White/Clowney then Ferrell/Kwit 

[big_palooka]

3 hours ago, oakdb36 said:

My point was you bringing up White was a terrible example based on box score scouting.

I've watched White play. He jumps off the screen. He's fast, agile and instinctive for a second year player

You miss me with the "box score scouting" clichés. Tampa games are must watch with Brady.

My point was, Ferrell was a terrible draft pick at 4 overall.