Post Your Top 5 for Defensive Player of the Year Award

[renndawg37]

Just now, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Okay, he's not. I still think he should be in the top 5. Good day, sir.

Good day. Let the better team win on Sunday. 

[Soko]

51 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

He hasn't played outside very much this year because we lost our slot CB's to injury.

Which doesn’t really change the point that if he’s not giving up completions outside +60% of the time, then it’s because he’s getting picked on inside. It’s okay that that’s not his strongest suit and shouldn’t indict him as a player, but that really doesn’t matter in terms of DPOY.

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Nnamdi Asomugha was being recognized every single year and he was never targeted. Richard Sherman, same thing. This is just blatantly untrue. Greatness is recognized all the time. Humphrey was 1st team All-Pro last year with 3 INT's and 2 FF's. Saying he hasn't taken the ball away this year (when his coverage stats aren't as good) is just admitting you haven't watched him play.

Did I wake up in an alternate reality where Nandi is recognized as a great? And Sherm took the ball too. Proof is in the pudding - no CB has won the award with less than 6. Tack on the pedestrian coverage stats and what do you want people to vote him on? His FFs? As a CB? It’ll never happen.

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It's weird how coverage stats matter until they're for a guy like. Then suddenly a 13.7 Yards/reception is good. 5 TD's against is good. 58% completion is suddenly somehow vastly lower than 61%? Like, come on....if all you care about is INT's than just admit that and then tell me that DeAngelo Hall is the best CB of all-time.

Did I say “vastly lower”? Or did I say “behind”? Because last I checked, 62 is “behind” 58, but sometimes my English and math can be off. 

The YPR is expected when discussing an outside corner vs an, evidently, slot CB. The passer rating? Complete lack of interceptions? Hard to defend, tbh.

Factor in the differences in defenses (plus, the massive difference in one abysmal interception compared to nine) and yeah, I think JC had the superior season. Still wouldn’t put him up for DPOY or an all-pro. Just speaks to how far Humphrey is, tbh. Probably deserves his own “Is Marlon Humphrey overrated” thread.

EDIT: Also, rich to accuse someone of not watching when you called JC a scrub, lol.

Edited January 4, 2021 by Yin-Yang

[Raves]

3 hours ago, BigTrav said:

Where the hell did this guy come from?? Never heard of it him before this season, now he's a stud

Saints drafted him in the 3rd round in the same draft as Lattimore, Ramzcyk, Marcus WIlliams, and Kamara.  He was injury prone in college which is probably the only reason the Saints got him in the 3rd round and he was mostly injury prone in the NFL with either major injuries or a lot of minor injuries that took their toll.  Finally stayed mostly healthy this year along with no real veteran/healthy 1st round pick ahead of him this year and took advantage of it.

[BlaqOptic]

14 hours ago, Vladimir L said:

Watt has been great but hasnt put up a rare season

 

Howard with a double diget int season is another level though its like a qb throwing 50 td or a rb hitting 2000 yards

Literally only 9 players have ever done what Watt has done from a Sack and TFL standpoint. Throw in QB Hits and only 2 people have done it but alright...  77 guys have had a 10 Interception season though.

[BlaqOptic]

7 hours ago, hrubes20 said:

I think we differ on what is "lights out" for a CB in this age of football.  Nobody is going to stop arguably the best WR in the league this year from catching a few passes.  But I'd be surprised if X was covering Diggs on even 3 of those 7 catches.  Allen simply didn't throw X's way.  And why would he when Byron Jones and Nik Needham were able to be abused as badly as they were?  I can only remember one play where Diggs made a catch with X in coverage (could have been more, obviously).  It was a slant where X was supposed to have some help from Eric Rowe, the safety, in the middle.  Rowe was woefully out of position and Diggs was able to get a nice gain; maybe 20 yards or so.  Still counts against X though, I suppose.

Matt Barkley and Gabe Davis burned him for a 56 yard reception. Diggs had at least 3 receptions on him early on as well. 

[BlaqOptic]

6 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

No idea, you have that info offhand? 

It’s interesting you’d bring up 11’ Woodson though, because how he took the ball away seemed to be more like Howard than Humphrey (7 interceptions, 1 FF). If Humph is a shutdown CB when he plays outside the numbers, then he either never played outside the numbers or he gets absolutely torched playing in the slot. 100+ targets, +60% completion rating allowed. 

Also funny enough, the other guy you brought up ITT, Darrelle Revis, actually did both of what you said a CB has to be either on of - he was a shutdown CB and took the ball away, despite absolutely not getting picked on 100+ times. 

Since we’re using examples, has their ever been a CB that won DPOY with only one interception? I’d have said one with an 85 passer rating against, but I doubt any site would have that tracked. 

Right you are! Definitely something we can revisit in a couple days.

Anyone gonna tell him?

[BlaqOptic]

Are people really arguing that the best player on what was the best defense (PPG wise) in the league isn't top 5 in DPoTY voting? Really?

[Soko]

16 minutes ago, BlaqOptic said:

Anyone gonna tell him?

You got me! Revis saw the ball a lot - the receivers didn’t, though. Pretty easy to differentiate 100+ targets and 37% allowed vs 100+ targets and 62% allowed, as far as being picked on. With some thought, anyway.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Yin-Yang

[Dr LBC]

14 hours ago, Vladimir L said:

Watt has been great but hasnt put up a rare season

 

Howard with a double diget int season is another level though its like a qb throwing 50 td or a rb hitting 2000 yards

It's happened before and the player that did it didn't even finish in the top 3 for DPOY, in fact he lost in a landslide to another DB who garnered 62% if the vote.  And said DB who won DPOY only put up 2 INT and 1 forced fumble on the season.  Between 2001 and 2007 there were 7 different players who posted double-digit interceptions in a single season, none of them won DPOY.  10 INT's isn't really a  rare season, when the INT leader in many, many recent years is in the 8-9 realm to begin with.

[Dr LBC]

5 hours ago, El Ramster said:

He’s being doubled and tripled and winning lol????? 13.5 from a DT Is insane 

He's been double- and triple-teamed consistently on the year and  still led the league in QB pressures for the third consecutive season, I'm fairly certain.  Given that his sack numbers are down, for his standard, this season, I'm fine with the award going to another player, but for people to say he shouldn't even be in consideration is absurd.

[BayRaider]

7 minutes ago, The LBC said:

It's happened before and the player that did it didn't even finish in the top 3 for DPOY, in fact he lost in a landslide to another DB who garnered 62% if the vote.  And said DB who won DPOY only put up 2 INT and 1 forced fumble on the season.  Between 2001 and 2007 there were 7 different players who posted double-digit interceptions in a single season, none of them won DPOY.  10 INT's isn't really a  rare season, when the INT leader in many, many recent years is in the 8-9 realm to begin with.

When other pass rushers had better seasons, sure. No pass rusher had a better season than Howard is the thing. 

[Dr LBC]

25 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

When other pass rushers had better seasons, sure. No pass rusher had a better season than Howard is the thing. 

Actually the year Bob Sanders won, the NFL sack leader (Patrick Kerney) only received as many votes (4) as the NFL interception leader (Antonio Cromartie); Sanders won in a landslide.  Urlacher pretty much ran away with the award in 2005, despite not barely being the 3rd-highest pass-rusher on his own team; and despite both Ty Law and Deltha O'Neal putting up 10 INT's apiece.

T.J. Watt's 15 sacks, 70 solo tackles, 41 QB Hits, 26 TFL's, and 2 FF's is at minimum on-par with Howard's 10 INT's and 20 passes defensed.  A case can be made that Haason Reddick's 12.5 sacks, 16 QB hits, 15 TFL's, and 6 FF's should be in the conversation too (but it won't be because the Cards' defense was mediocre at best this season).  My point being, 10 INT's is not the special benchmark some are trying to make it out to be.  Stephon Gilmore won the award last year with on 6 INT's on the season, despite Shaq Barrett putting up 1 less sack than Donald did when he won DPOY the year prior, and coming only 3 sacks short of Strahan's all-time single season record.  "Better" is about more than just raw stats.

[diamondbull424]

I’d give the award to Watt or Donald. Howard’s defense gave up an embarrassing performance when it mattered most. I think DPOY should win the award as much for their leadership ability to galvanize their unit as their performance and to give up 50 against an offense that had one foot in the game and the other foot in the postseason just isn’t something I would reward a DPOY award to.

Whereas Watt and Darnold’s two defenses both lay claims for having the top defensive units in the league, they’re both the best players on those defenses as well. I’d give the edge to TJ Watt because even after that unit lost Spillane, Bush, and Dupree they were able to hold firm enough to win a division that had 3 playoff teams. That defense had to deal with an offense that couldn’t get anything going.

The difference between who should win between those two is pretty negligible for me, but Watt deserves this award at some point... and this season is as good as any. But if Donald won that would also make sense, he’s the better player.

[AlexGreen#20]

1 hour ago, BlaqOptic said:

Matt Barkley and Gabe Davis burned him for a 56 yard reception. Diggs had at least 3 receptions on him early on as well. 

Lying *** punk

Howard wasn't even on the field. Nik Needham was the CB that got burned and Noah Igbinoghene was the other CB. 

Diggs' catches were:

A 5 yard gain where Howard was on the other side of the field with 12:13 left in the 1st quarter.

A 5 yard gain off of a Cover-3 where Howard was the deep third man with 28 seconds left in the 1st quarter. 

A 5 yard curl route that went for 8 with Howard in "coverage" as the Cover-3 man. (14:25 2nd quarter)

A slant route in man to man with Howard where both ILBs sucked up on play action that went for 18. (13:59 2nd quarter)

A 5 yard in route against a Cover-3 with Howard in "coverage" where the playside ILB got pulled out of the coverage creating the open. (9:43 2nd quarter)

A 3 yard curl route out of the slot with Howard playing the boundary. (8:31 2nd quarter)

A 5 yard slant route against Cover-3 where the ILBs didn't pick him up (1:44 2nd quarter)

 

At worst, you can ding Howard for 3 catches for 28 yards against Steffon Diggs. That isn't a bad day by any stretch of the imagination, and all of the catches involved somebody else not doing their job well. Absolutely ridiculous. 

[AlexGreen#20]

46 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

I’d give the award to Watt or Donald. Howard’s defense gave up an embarrassing performance when it mattered most. I think DPOY should win the award as much for their leadership ability to galvanize their unit as their performance and to give up 50 against an offense that had one foot in the game and the other foot in the postseason just isn’t something I would reward a DPOY award to.

Whereas Watt and Darnold’s two defenses both lay claims for having the top defensive units in the league, they’re both the best players on those defenses as well. I’d give the edge to TJ Watt because even after that unit lost Spillane, Bush, and Dupree they were able to hold firm enough to win a division that had 3 playoff teams. That defense had to deal with an offense that couldn’t get anything going.

The difference between who should win between those two is pretty negligible for me, but Watt deserves this award at some point... and this season is as good as any. But if Donald won that would also make sense, he’s the better player.

The Dolphins were 5th in points allowed per drive. Knocking Howard for his team defensive success is absurd. 

The Steelers offense that you're crediting the Steelers defense with surviving scored 2.12 points per drive. The Dolphins offense scored 2.10 points per drive. The Steelers offense was 3rd in TO%. The Dolphins offense was 15th.