Trent Brown to be traded to NE

[jimkelly02]

On 3/25/2021 at 5:05 AM, oakdb36 said:

The Raiders aren't out there saying it's Brown's fault though. They're saying he's the best RT in the league when he's right. On the other hand, Brown is blaming the "place of work" for everything. A place of work he didn't have access to during a pandemic. Instead of working on his own, he showed up to work totally out of shape. It's too easy to put the blame on the organization when you don't hold up your end of the bargain. He wasn't "feeling" it though.

Exactly.  He makes excuses constantly.  COVID or not you gotta come to work ready.  He was so out of shape he wasn’t fit to work.  I know covid made it more difficult but not impossible.  Honestly, if your motivated it made it easier because you had more time.  The downside is it took away the structure that he needs, because he lacks self motivation.

[jimkelly02]

I do find it funny that it was only me, @BayRaider, and one or two other posters who were saying everything that’s being said now back during the season.  Everyone else jumped on us.  But now everyone is saying what we said.  
I say this not to just gloat... it is part that.... we should have released him from his deal and saved millions when he broke covid protocols.... conduct detrimental to the team... but also because the signs were always there. The team and fans/posters saw enough to know who TB really was a long time ago.... probably before we signed him.  I bet you there were only 3-4 teams willing to make him a 10+M offer given his character and history and we called up with literally “this is the biggest deal ever for a OT.... no negotiations.... we’ll immediately beat not just all offers but give you a deal so big no one could possible match it”.  When you go into a car lot do you say “I have to have that car”.... no because you negotiate.  It’s ridiculous and unconscionable we didn’t negotiate with TB.

[NYRaider]

3 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

I do find it funny that it was only me, @BayRaider, and one or two other posters who were saying everything that’s being said now back during the season.  Everyone else jumped on us.  But now everyone is saying what we said.  
I say this not to just gloat... it is part that.... we should have released him from his deal and saved millions when he broke covid protocols.... conduct detrimental to the team... but also because the signs were always there. The team and fans/posters saw enough to know who TB really was a long time ago.... probably before we signed him.  I bet you there were only 3-4 teams willing to make him a 10+M offer given his character and history and we called up with literally “this is the biggest deal ever for a OT.... no negotiations.... we’ll immediately beat not just all offers but give you a deal so big no one could possible match it”.  When you go into a car lot do you say “I have to have that car”.... no because you negotiate.  It’s ridiculous and unconscionable we didn’t negotiate with TB.

Even at the time we signed him, Kolton Miller was coming off of a horrible rookie season and everyone assumed we gave him that massive contract to play LT. Brown made more then 2x as much as the second highest paid RT in the NFL in 2021. 

[drfrey13]

On 3/24/2021 at 4:04 PM, NYRaider said:

I was chatting with my friend about this the other day. Like 90% of the guys that we've acquired under Gruden have stunk and the 10% that are actually good at football are/were crazy with checkered pasts. 

We lack leadership across the board but I'd primarily point to Jon Gruden and Derek Carr. You see the Tom Brady effect in Tampa Bay, those guys all played hard and stayed in line because they believed in Tom and wanted to win. I don't think guys in our locker room are that fond of Carr. 

I have been saying since 2017 that something about Carr is or has been alienating other players.  I think he is a teachers pet.  I think Carr will side with coaches over his fellow players no matter who is at fault and the WFT game in 2017 was the point he lost credibility in the league with other players.  I believe him and 2 other players where the only players in the league that did not unite with the other players on their team in protest.  Even Daniel Snyder was on the field interlocking arms with his players.  Carr likes to act like a leader but I think this is where he lacks the most.

[jimkelly02]

1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

Even at the time we signed him, Kolton Miller was coming off of a horrible rookie season and everyone assumed we gave him that massive contract to play LT. Brown made more then 2x as much as the second highest paid RT in the NFL in 2021. 

I knew Brown would play RT from the first moment ... he only played LT because of injury and because the Pats OL coach is a magician and made it work.

I also had faith in Miller to develop because his poor play directly coincided with his injury and you could see on the tape the differences in his movement.  His fundamentals got worse because he was having to make compromises due to the injury.  I didn’t love the pick (wanted Derwin James) originally but understood it and liked his upside.

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, drfrey13 said:

I have been saying since 2017 that something about Carr is or has been alienating other players.  I think he is a teachers pet.  I think Carr will side with coaches over his fellow players no matter who is at fault and the WFT game in 2017 was the point he lost credibility in the league with other players.  I believe him and 2 other players where the only players in the league that did not unite with the other players on their team in protest.  Even Daniel Snyder was on the field interlocking arms with his players.  Carr likes to act like a leader but I think this is where he lacks the most.

I agree. Carr, other players on the team, Gruden, or Mayock can say whatever they want about Carr's leadership but I'm not buying it. When you look at other great quarterbacks around the league, how often do guys on their team act out or publicly celebrate when they're released/traded? 

[NYRaider]

3 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

I knew Brown would play RT from the first moment ... he only played LT because of injury and because the Pats OL coach is a magician and made it work.

I also had faith in Miller to develop because his poor play directly coincided with his injury and you could see on the tape the differences in his movement.  His fundamentals got worse because he was having to make compromises due to the injury.  I didn’t love the pick (wanted Derwin James) originally but understood it and liked his upside.

At the time though Kolton was coming off of a horrible rookie season where he allowed 17 sacks and had the worst run blocking grade in PFF history. 

[jimkelly02]

3 hours ago, NYRaider said:

At the time though Kolton was coming off of a horrible rookie season where he allowed 17 sacks and had the worst run blocking grade in PFF history. 

Yeah I understand.  Maybe I’m not explaining my point well enough.

There’s two points im making:

1) TB was only a LT for 1 year and out of necessity.... whoever he signed with would have moved him back to RT.  Even if he stayed in NE when Wynn came back he was going back to LT.   TB was always coming here to be the RT.  There was never going to be competition.

2) Teams knew about his laziness and character issues...that’s why he went so late in the draft... he was a few from going undrafted.  In SF he was developing nicely and the team traded him Away for a mid round pick while still on a rookie deal.  It’s not like SF didn’t know what they had.  After TB’s rookie year Von Miller has already come out and said he’s the OT that gives him the most trouble he’s and that he is on his way to being a top 5 OT.  He then started 16/16 games his 2nd year for SF.  He started 10/10 games his 3rd year before an injury sent him to IR.  So SF knew what they had in him, he didn’t transform his game in  NE.... he got better sure but he was still pretty good in SF.  That said SF knew enough not to invest much into him. That’s a massive red flag. After a very good season in NE they didn’t franchise or transition tag him, they didn’t hard to resign him, they let him walk.

But my point wasn’t that we shouldn’t have signed him.... my point is the way we went about it was flawed at the core.

TB was a highly ranked FA but he wasn’t this amazing “I can’t believe they let him hit the open market” player.  That said Mayock is on record as saying at 12:01 they called TB’s agent with a ‘a deal they couldn’t refuse” and he was signed by 12:10.  
We didn’t try and negotiate.... we never asked what they were looking for... we just reset the OT market.

Who negotiates like that?  The agent was absolutely laughing at us.  Do you think we got tough when it came to negotiating the structure of the deal... in the other 9 mins it took?  Highly doubt it. 
TB did have a good season but he was known throughout the league to be soft and lazy.  That said I bet you there weren’t but a few teams who were legitimately in on signing him to a deal of that size.  Why not see what other offers he’s get.  Maybe you could have gotten him for 14M per year instead of 16M.  Maybe you could have structured the deal so he didn’t have year 2 fully guaranteed.  

My point was we went into the whole TB signing giving TB all the leverage.  We threw a record deal with 2 years of front loaded, guaranteed money at a player whose own team twice let him go.

And knowing the guy was already beginning to act up and not playing thru injuries in his first season. Why didn’t we have more contract and stay on top of TB knowing who he was?  So I blame TB for being a what I feel is a low character person but also the Organization for not being more on top of Our investment.

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, jimkelly02 said:

1) TB was only a LT for 1 year and out of necessity.... whoever he signed with would have moved him back to RT.  Even if he stayed in NE when Wynn came back he was going back to LT.   TB was always coming here to be the RT.  There was never going to be competition.

The best year of his career for a Super Bowl team he started at LT. We paid him top level LT money. Mitchell Schwartz made 4 consecutive All-Pro teams at RT and had a $10M cap hit, less than half of what we paid TB. 

[jimkelly02]

1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

The best year of his career for a Super Bowl team he started at LT. We paid him top level LT money. Mitchell Schwartz made 4 consecutive All-Pro teams at RT and had a $10M cap hit, less than half of what we paid TB. 

Which goes directly to my point of we should have negotiated!  Why would we ever pay that much for him?  He’s a RT who can play LT.  I suspect only 2 other teams seriously were considering signing him at the money he was initially projected to get.  And I’m convinced every one of those teams outside of NE would have signed him to play RT, not LT

 But he was coming here from day 1 to be the RT.  
If he came here to be a LT why didn’t he ever compete for the job? There was never a competition in TC.  So you think we planned to bring him into play LT and changed our minds before camp started? That’s not believe able to me.  If they wanted him to be the LT we’d have heard rumblings that Miller’s job is on the line, etc.  Even in the post signing interviews all sides were pretty wishy-washy about where He’s play..... because the organization was trying to Avoid the flack from the media about paying him that much To Play RT.

 And now that he’s on NE again where is he playing? RT.

His first go around in NE...he was brought in to play RT.  He was only moved to LT after Wynn got hurt.  Dante Scarnecchia coaches him up and made it work with his great scheme.  

i get that he had a great season at LT for a SB team.... but that doesn’t make him a LT permanently.  He had Joe Thuney inside of him and Scar’s scheme protected him a lot with chips from the TE and FB that year.  Not to mention TB threw the ball very quickly, rarely holding into it for too long.