TheOnlyThing Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 2 hours ago, SpeightTheVillain said: This is a ridiculous and circular argument. You just made the point for me. Why are those two the only comparable? Perhaps because they are literally the only 2 you could make an argument for being more successful, and they are specifically chosen to fit your agenda? Brees, Roethlisberger, and Eli Manning all have a shot at Canton. Where are they on your comparisons? What about the 9 players already in Canton who played in the modern playoff format? I view Rodgers talent as being on the same level as Brady and P. Manning and thus believe they are the best comparators. I also think that teams with one of those three at QB should be expected to make the playoffs nearly every season, which for the most part they have. You apparently view Rodgers' talent as more comparable to Brees, Roethlisberger, and E. Manning and believe their records of playoff appearances are a more accurate way of comparing relative success. Our contrasting views of Rodgers place in the pantheon of great QBs are of course nothing more than competing subjective determinations and there is no way I can prove your view that Rodgers is not comparable to Brady or P. Manning is wrong any more than you can prove my view that he is their equal is incorrect. However, even assuming you did not neglect to mention the playoff records of Manning AND Brady because their constant presence in the playoffs does not square with the narrative that the Pack should also be expected to be in the playoffs with Rodgers at QB, I think it is worth noting that by age 33, Roethlisberger had been to 3 SBs and won 2, Eli had been to and won 2, and Brees had been to and won 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantyWrestler Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 16 hours ago, Pugger said: If we don't win half of our remaining games I think to blame it on Ted is very unfair. Our GM isn't clairvoyant so there is no way to be prepared for the number of injuries, especially the number of guys hurt on our OL. I would love to know if another team has been devastated by injuries to one unit like we have been the past 2 seasons. Fair enough as long as their tackles and corners miss most of those games as well. But the tackles and corners come back in the next three weeks after the bye, i think it is fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 20 hours ago, packfanfb said: Tell that to Howard Green. We don't beat the Steelers without him. That's a fact. He made the one play a cheaper UDFA that we usually settle for couldnt make. One player just justify that argument. I shouldn't even have to respond to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 21 hours ago, th87 said: Still disagree. RR's inability to threaten the seam (and block) hampered the offense considerably. Hence his responsibility for our offensive woes. Simply replacing him with Cook caused a night-and-day difference. I'd argue the loss of Jordy Nelson to injury impacted the offense FAR more than whatever RR couldn't do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
th87 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 5 hours ago, CWood21 said: I'd argue the loss of Jordy Nelson to injury impacted the offense FAR more than whatever RR couldn't do. Jordy Nelson was available from the start of 2016, and the offense was still garbage. It didn't start taking off until Cook returned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
th87 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 13 hours ago, SpeightTheVillain said: This is a ridiculous and circular argument. You just made the point for me. Why are those two the only comparable? Perhaps because they are literally the only 2 you could make an argument for being more successful, and they are specifically chosen to fit your agenda? Brees, Roethlisberger, and Eli Manning all have a shot at Canton. Where are they on your comparisons? What about the 9 players already in Canton who played in the modern playoff format? Are you really saying Ben, Brees, and Eli are as good as Rodgers? No? Then there's no comparison to be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
th87 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 10 hours ago, TheOnlyThing said: I view Rodgers talent as being on the same level as Brady and P. Manning and thus believe they are the best comparators. I also think that teams with one of those three at QB should be expected to make the playoffs nearly every season, which for the most part they have. You apparently view Rodgers' talent as more comparable to Brees, Roethlisberger, and E. Manning and believe their records of playoff appearances are a more accurate way of comparing relative success. Our contrasting views of Rodgers place in the pantheon of great QBs are of course nothing more than competing subjective determinations and there is no way I can prove your view that Rodgers is not comparable to Brady or P. Manning is wrong any more than you can prove my view that he is their equal is incorrect. However, even assuming you did not neglect to mention the playoff records of Manning AND Brady because their constant presence in the playoffs does not square with the narrative that the Pack should also be expected to be in the playoffs with Rodgers at QB, I think it is worth noting that by age 33, Roethlisberger had been to 3 SBs and won 2, Eli had been to and won 2, and Brees had been to and won 1. I think Rodgers is better than Brady. The points against stat is very eye-opening. I think we're underachieving, and that's concerning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 8 hours ago, th87 said: Are you really saying Ben, Brees, and Eli are as good as Rodgers? No? Then there's no comparison to be made. I believe this all started by saying Hall of Fame QBs get you to the playoffs every year though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 8 hours ago, th87 said: Jordy Nelson was available from the start of 2016, and the offense was still garbage. It didn't start taking off until Cook returned. Stick with the same argument. You said our offense in 2015 sucked because Richard Rodgers wasn't able to threaten the seam vertically. I countered that Jordy Nelson's absence played a bigger role in that, and you countered with this argument. Even if you want to go towards your argument, Jordy Nelson wasn't his normal self until around midseason of the 2016 season. The fact is that aside from 2015, the Packers had a good offense in 2013 and 2014 even without a legitimate TE to attack the middle of the field (after the Finley injury) so why is Jared Cook suddenly the magic piece to fix that offensive issue? The answer is it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollino14 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 If we struggle on offense, I think it would tell a bit more about Mac as well. We traded up for Hundley, he's been in the system for 2 plus years, he should be competent. Obviously there are a bunch of other variables, but if we're relatively healthy and our offense can't move the ball, then some questions need to be asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeightTheVillain Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 6 hours ago, NormSizedMidget said: I believe this all started by saying Hall of Fame QBs get you to the playoffs every year though. Exactly. People are moving the goal posts of this argument from all HOF QBs = Playoffs to Packers are less then successful then the only two teams more successful in this era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green19 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 On 10/17/2017 at 11:18 AM, RoellPreston88 said: This team was a 10-12 win team with Rodgers, because of all the deficiencies he covers up. Without Rodgers? Realistically I can't see another win on the schedule. But if you think that heads will roll because of this, you're wrong. An injured Rodgers is simply a free pass for them. In fact, the only way that any of their jobs would ever be in jeopardy is if the Packers missed the playoffs consecutive years WITH a healthy Rodgers. Of course, that's just not gonna happen, so its rinse and repeat until Rodgers retires... If there's any downside to not having a real owner, it's this. You can always stop watching the Packers and stop buying Packers apparel. Affect their bottom line. The board will then pressure Murphy to take action. If you really want change... This is how it would happen. Because the board and the Packers care about money as much or more than winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
th87 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 8 hours ago, NormSizedMidget said: I believe this all started by saying Hall of Fame QBs get you to the playoffs every year though. You're right - my mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
th87 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 2 hours ago, SpeightTheVillain said: Exactly. People are moving the goal posts of this argument from all HOF QBs = Playoffs to Packers are less then successful then the only two teams more successful in this era. My bad. I disagree with the OP that HOF QBs are automatic playoffs. However, I think GOAT candidates are, particularly in this era, and especially given the division. No goalposts moving, because OP and I are different people with different opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 5 minutes ago, th87 said: You're right - my mistake. It was said quite a few posts ago. Easy to lose track of the conversation in some of these threads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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