Who is actually a worthy Pick at 17?

[Jeremy408]

17 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Don’t understand why fans care so much about year 1 production when making a draft pick. We aren’t Super Bowl contenders.

What’s your answer to the original post? I'm trying to see peoples opinions

[Jeremy408]

18 hours ago, OnlyGlove said:

Good value: Darrisaw, JOK, Ojulari, Parsons, Paye

Steal: Surtain, Waddle,Horn, Philips,

Bad Value: Moehrig, Jenkins, Baremore, Cosmi, Grant

I think we're fairly similar(Except Paye)

[Jeremy408]

16 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

When people say Moehrig is bad value, are they going off of his player evaluation or perceived value?

What’s your answer to the original post? I'm trying to see peoples opinions

[Jeremy408]

18 hours ago, oakdb36 said:

DTs rarely make a huge impact as rookies. The point a DT shouldn't be drafted high because he won't be good right now is weak and would apply to basically all the DTs ever. Just last year, Javon Kinlaw was all about potential too.

What’s your answer to the original post? I'm trying to see peoples opinions

[reddevil]

Just now, Jeremy408 said:

No darrisaw? intresting

I mean it just goes back to the point I made (and keep making - sorry for being on repeat!). Going into the off-season, I felt the offense would just need some minor moves here and there and we could put all focus and energy into improving the historically bad defense.

So as much as I like Darrisaw (and Jenkins for that matter) and feel they will be good players and good picks for that area of the team, I would not be able to escape the feeling that the pick should have been used on a defensive player we so desperately need.

[BayRaider]

4 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

What’s your answer to the original post? I'm trying to see peoples opinions

I was the first person to answer it. While we do have Yannick for 2 years, and Ferrell/Crosby I absolutely wouldn’t object to Paye and Ojulari and think both would be solid picks for this franchise. Plus Ojulari can be much more versatile and play both off ball linebacker and DE for us, tremendous athlete. 

[Jeremy408]

1 minute ago, reddevil said:

I mean it just goes back to the point I made (and keep making - sorry for being on repeat!). Going into the off-season, I felt the offense would just need some minor moves here and there and we could put all focus and energy into improving the historically bad defense.

So as much as I like Darrisaw (and Jenkins for that matter) and feel they will be good players and good picks for that area of the team, I would not be able to escape the feeling that the pick should have been used on a defensive player we so desperately need.

That's true(And I feel the exact same way that the whole right tackle thing is over blown.)  But then my question is why do you have Slater listed then?

[Devilshark69]

1. Paye, Phillips, darrisaw, jok, 

2. parsons, slater, d smith

3. Slight reach, moehrig, Jenkins, 

4. deeper reach, barmore, newsome, cosmi. 
 

[Jeremy408]

1 minute ago, BayRaider said:

I was the first person to answer it. While we do have Yannick for 2 years, and Ferrell/Crosby I absolutely wouldn’t object to Paye and Ojulari and think both would be solid picks for this franchise. Plus Ojulari can be much more versatile and play both off ball linebacker and DE for us, tremendous athlete. 

Oh My bad lol. I think by the time Ngakoue's two years are up All the edge rusher's on the team's contracts will be up. I just feel like when it comes to a player like Paye, we don't need any more project players that can't rush the passer immediately. I think he'd be great for another team that already has a proven and established pass rush.

Now do I think our pass rush has greatly improved I think yes. But the thing is I don't know for sure and on a team where we don't know for sure we can't get another pass rusher that we don't know for sure is going to be able to rush the passer based on what we've seen in college. 

[drfrey13]

19 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

What’s your answer to the original post? I'm trying to see peoples opinions

1. Who would actually be worthy of the Raiders number 17 pick?

Any prospect in the top 20.  I really want a 3T and Barmore is the only one worth a top 20.

2. Who would be a steal at the raiders 17th pick?

Any prospect ranked in your top 12.  The top 8 (3 WR, 3QBs, Sewell, and Pitts) plus Parson, Surtain, Slater, and Farley but after the top 8 there is a lot of difference of opinion.

3. Who Would be a reach at the Raiders 17th?

Anyone you see as a late (25th or later) 1st and beyond.  Onwuzurike, Oweh, and Moehrig, and Davis.  Not that these players are not good just some guys I could see us taking when we could trade back in the late first and still get.  I have a weird felling that we might see Oweh's name being called for us.  He has the abilities without the production that a big ego coach would say we can teach him.

Overall I think this is one of those years where you could see your 30 ranked player going 9th or 10th.  Crazy that you might not see a top 10 defensive player this year.  I would really like to see a trade back into the late 1st/early 2nd.  I could see a team trading up for a QB or a player they feel is slipping.  I expect a lot of movement with draft boards being so different.

[Jeremy408]

7 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

1. Who would actually be worthy of the Raiders number 17 pick?

Any prospect in the top 20.  I really want a 3T and Barmore is the only one worth a top 20.

2. Who would be a steal at the raiders 17th pick?

Any prospect ranked in your top 12.  The top 8 (3 WR, 3QBs, Sewell, and Pitts) plus Parson, Surtain, Slater, and Farley but after the top 8 there is a lot of difference of opinion.

3. Who Would be a reach at the Raiders 17th?

Anyone you see as a late (25th or later) 1st and beyond.  Onwuzurike, Oweh, and Moehrig, and Davis.  Not that these players are not good just some guys I could see us taking when we could trade back in the late first and still get.  I have a weird felling that we might see Oweh's name being called for us.  He has the abilities without the production that a big ego coach would say we can teach him.

Overall I think this is one of those years where you could see your 30 ranked player going 9th or 10th.  Crazy that you might not see a top 10 defensive player this year.  I would really like to see a trade back into the late 1st/early 2nd.  I could see a team trading up for a QB or a player they feel is slipping.  I expect a lot of movement with draft boards being so different.

That's the thing though: Who is the "top 20"?

Edited April 17, 2021 by Jeremy408

[drfrey13]

19 hours ago, oakdb36 said:

DTs rarely make a huge impact as rookies. The point a DT shouldn't be drafted high because he won't be good right now is weak and would apply to basically all the DTs ever. Just last year, Javon Kinlaw was all about potential too.

Kinlaw was my choice last year to go with Jefferson and we would not have such an issue this year.  Draft Farley, Surtain, Horn, or one of the speed WRs if they fall to us.  All would be worth the 17th pick.

Ngakoue - Hankins - Kinlaw - Ferrell

[drfrey13]

2 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

That's the thing though: Who is the "top 20"

You want me to give you my top 20?  Depends on which side of the bed I wake up on this year.  What makes you a top twenty player is more about how big the drop off is to the next guy at your position.  If I think I can get Grant in the 2nd why do I take Moerhig in the 1st.  If I do not grab Barmore in the 1st I am probably waiting until the 3rd to grab a DT.  I really do not have one until I see how the board plays out.  There is not a lot of difference between 15 and 30.  If there is a run on a specific position the players behind them positionally will move up.  This is the type of draft I hate because you have to react more.

Example I could see happening is a run on OTs and we have 5-6 graded closely.  If we wait another round we have to grab our 8-10 ranked tackle that should have gone 3 rounds later.  Not a big difference between #3 and #6 so we grab an OT prospect that we were hoping to get in round 2.  Also why I could see us grabbing Grant at 17 if Moehrig goes at #13-16.  We have to many holes so we will probably react and get less value then we want. 

I will definitely give my choice before we select and start another Me vs Grudock thread for each round.

[Jeremy408]

2 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

You want me to give you my top 20?  Depends on which side of the bed I wake up on this year.  What makes you a top twenty player is more about how big the drop off is to the next guy at your position.  If I think I can get Grant in the 2nd why do I take Moerhig in the 1st.  If I do not grab Barmore in the 1st I am probably waiting until the 3rd to grab a DT.  I really do not have one until I see how the board plays out.  There is not a lot of difference between 15 and 30.  If there is a run on a specific position the players behind them positionally will move up.  This is the type of draft I hate because you have to react more.

Example I could see happening is a run on OTs and we have 5-6 graded closely.  If we wait another round we have to grab our 8-10 ranked tackle that should have gone 3 rounds later.  Not a big difference between #3 and #6 so we grab an OT prospect that we were hoping to get in round 2.  Also why I could see us grabbing Grant at 17 if Moehrig goes at #13-16.  We have to many holes so we will probably react and get less value then we want. 

I will definitely give my choice before we select and start another Me vs Grudock thread for each round.

I see what you mean about the top 20. Excuse me for being critical, but don't you think that its easy(And low-key a cop out)to put anyone in the "top 20" for who you think is worthy of the #17th pick and then kind of leave it ambiguous as to who those players are? Why not give Maybe a handful of players that'll be there that would actually be worthy of the 17th pick(Obviously exclude the players that won't be there like the quarterbacks and Sewell etc.)

[drfrey13]

29 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

I see what you mean about the top 20. Excuse me for being critical, but don't you think that its easy(And low-key a cop out)to put anyone in the "top 20" for who you think is worthy of the #17th pick and then kind of leave it ambiguous as to who those players are? Why not give Maybe a handful of players that'll be there that would actually be worthy of the 17th pick(Obviously exclude the players that won't be there like the quarterbacks and Sewell etc.)

1-8 are a given.

9-14 Parsons, Farley, Surtain, Horn, Slater,  and Phillips

15-20 Paye, Rousseau, Barmore, JOK, Vera-Tucker, and Harris

I left out the #4 and 5 QB who are top 20 by positional value.  If we were running a different scheme other players would be more valuable like Collins.  Moehrig is a player I struggle with similar to Barmore but I think there is more value coming after him at the safety position.  I would not be angry with the pick.