Who is actually a worthy Pick at 17?

[Jeremy408]

36 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

When people say Moehrig is bad value, are they going off of his player evaluation or perceived value?

A very key question you just asked

[big_palooka]

13 hours ago, oakdb36 said:

DTs rarely make a huge impact as rookies. The point a DT shouldn't be drafted high because he won't be good right now is weak and would apply to basically all the DTs ever. Just last year, Javon Kinlaw was all about potential too.

If this was directed at my comments, I completely agree with you. I don't however like the developmental talent of any of the DTs in this class outside Levi O. If I had to take a DT at 17, it would be Levi O because I think you look back year 2-3 and say that's a good pick. But, I think you can get him later on so it would be a slight reach based on projected draft spot.

Barmore, I think you look back in 2-3 years and he's just a guy. He will have a role, but never be an impactful player worth a frp.

[big_palooka]

12 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

When people say Moehrig is bad value, are they going off of his player evaluation or perceived value?

At 17, my feeling is there will be better players at LB, CB or edge rusher available. Taking Moehrig over a selected few there would be bad value in my eyes.  

I rank him 2 behind Holland personally who I feel you can get at 48. I wouldn't hate taking Moehrig because he's a good looking player. But not over guys like Parsons, JOK, Ojulari, etc. Trading back and drafting a FS feels more ideal if that's the position you want.

[big_palooka]

13 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

But what about how raw of a prospect he is or how he has like no pass rush moves though?

Drafting traits with Paye. He's twitchy, has great feet and short area burst with a ton of power. 

I draft him on on a crowded Dline, let him have a role as rookie while he develops and expand on his role in year 2. He has all the tools, just needs the experience and coaching.

[Jeremy408]

34 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Drafting traits with Paye. He's twitchy, has great feet and short area burst with a ton of power. 

I draft him on on a crowded Dline, let him have a role as rookie while he develops and expand on his role in year 2. He has all the tools, just needs the experience and coaching.

My thing with drafting him is I feel like we have too many theoretical players. I want someone who’s less of a projection. You don’t want someone who’s more likely to contribute year 1?

[oakdb36]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

Barmore, I think you look back in 2-3 years and he's just a guy. He will have a role, but never be an impactful player worth a frp.

This is confusing when you said he's loaded with potential earlier. I guess you have the ability to tell who will reach their potential or not.

[big_palooka]

 

46 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

My thing with drafting him is I feel like we have too many theoretical players. I want someone who’s less of a projection. You don’t want someone who’s more likely to contribute year 1?

I think he can contribute year 1. But he would be low on my list of players who'd have to be off the board to take at 17.

I would however draft him over a RT or FS not named Darrisaw. 

[big_palooka]

11 minutes ago, oakdb36 said:

This is confusing when you said he's loaded with potential earlier. I guess you have the ability to tell who will reach their potential or not.

Poor choice of words. He has potential. He's not loaded with potential. He's a limited athlete in by eyes. Even comparing him to Shelvin who's more of a NT, I see more quickness and agility with Shelvin who fits a need and can be had in round 3-4.

Barmore's ceiling is limited imo. That's why I wouldn't take him until the 3rd. 

 

[reddevil]

3 hours ago, big_palooka said:

At 17, my feeling is there will be better players at LB, CB or edge rusher available. Taking Moehrig over a selected few there would be bad value in my eyes.  

I rank him 2 behind Holland personally who I feel you can get at 48. I wouldn't hate taking Moehrig because he's a good looking player. But not over guys like Parsons, JOK, Ojulari, etc. Trading back and drafting a FS feels more ideal if that's the position you want.

I agree that if the guys you mention are available and we take Moehrig, I will be a little disappointed as I am after a playmaker at that spot and feel that there are enough developmental safetys later in the draft that could be had (much like with OTs)

That said, if they are gone (or most of them) I would see it as a decent, albeit safe pick. I haven’t seen him mocked past the Jags at 25 and think that early to mid 20s is about right for him - so wouldn’t call it a reach, not a significant one anyway. I can see him being a very good pro for a long time. Just seems to be a 7/10 in most categories. 

[Jeremy408]

5 minutes ago, reddevil said:

I agree that if the guys you mention are available and we take Moehrig, I will be a little disappointed as I am after a playmaker at that spot and feel that there are enough developmental safetys later in the draft that could be had (much like with OTs)

That said, if they are gone (or most of them) I would see it as a decent, albeit safe pick. I haven’t seen him mocked past the Jags at 25 and think that early to mid 20s is about right for him - so wouldn’t call it a reach, not a significant one anyway. I can see him being a very good pro for a long time. Just seems to be a 7/10 in most categories. 

What’s your answer to the original post?

[BayRaider]

3 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

My thing with drafting him is I feel like we have too many theoretical players. I want someone who’s less of a projection. [b]You don’t want someone who’s more likely to contribute year 1?[/b]

Don’t understand why fans care so much about year 1 production when making a draft pick. We aren’t Super Bowl contenders.

[reddevil]

38 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

What’s your answer to the original post?

Tough one for me as I have such mixed feelings going into the draft. There are oline guys that, all needs being equal, I would ordinarily be happy to pick at 17 (Darrisaw, Jenkins, AVT). Like I like them as prospects.

But I just feel sour that due to the FOs dismantling of the oline and response in FA to the OT position, that Gruden’s offense first tendencies will lead us to picking one over defensive talent that may be available at the pick. 

With that rant over:

1. JOK, Ojulari, Paye, Horn

2. Parsons, Surtain, Slater

3. Cosmi, Grant, Rousseau, Oweh 

[Jeremy408]

2 minutes ago, reddevil said:

Tough one for me as I have such mixed feelings going into the draft. There are oline guys that, all needs being equal, I would ordinarily be happy to pick at 17 (Darrisaw, Jenkins, AVT). Like I like them as prospects.

But I just feel sour that due to the FOs dismantling of the oline and response in FA to the OT position, that Gruden’s offense first tendencies will lead us to picking one over defensive talent that may be available at the pick. 

With that rant over:

1. JOK, Ojulari, Paye, Horn

2. Parsons, Surtain, Slater

3. Cosmi, Grant, Rousseau, Oweh 

No darrisaw? intresting

[Jeremy408]

21 hours ago, CaliforniaKid7 said:

I don't understand the "not that great of an athlete" bit with Barmore. 

His RAS is 8.25 which is plenty high. His pro-day numbers were right on par with previous Alabama DT's. 

6'4 310 and he run 4.93 which is almost identical to what Marcel Dareus put up when he came out of Bama and went top 3. Similar numbers to Daron Payne as well who was 20 pounds lighter as a prospect. Even Quinnen Williams was only .1 second faster than Barmore (4.83). 

IMO Barmore goes top 20. He's not an elite top 5 talent in this draft but he's being undervalued. He's a fine pick at 17. 

For all of the age guys out there Barmore is only 21 and RS Sophomore. He's far from a finished product. 

What’s your answer to the original post? I'm trying to see peoples opinions

[Jeremy408]

18 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

That is my only issue with Barmore is he is more of a project.  That will be the case for almost all DT their first year or two.  I would like some impact year 1 but I do not see this team making the playoffs this year anyways so I would not mind waiting a year for what could be the biggest impact player for our defense in this draft.  There are also other options that could pay off in a year or two but I would like to see them invest early in a decent 3T.

What’s your answer to the original post? I'm trying to see peoples opinions