Who is actually a worthy Pick at 17?

[Jeremy408]

I noticed there's been a lot of talk about how a lot of players are reaches. What I wanted to do is get peoples definitive opinions on...

1. Who would actually be worthy of the Raiders number 17 pick?

2. Who would be a steal at the raiders 17th pick?

3. Who Would be a reach at the Raiders 17th?

Rule: You can't just simply say a position or best player available. You have to give actual names of prospects

Edited April 16, 2021 by Jeremy408

[BayRaider]

Worth the pick: Darrisaw, Moehrig, Farley, Paye, Ojulari

Absolute 100% Steal: Parsons

Slight Reach: Jenkins, JOK

Classic Raiders Huge Reach: Barmore, Grant, Tyson Campbell, Cosmi

[Jeremy408]

28 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Worth the pick: Darrisaw, Moehrig, Farley, Paye, Ojulari

Absolute 100% Steal: Parsons

Slight Reach: Jenkins, JOK

Classic Raiders Huge Reach: Barmore, Grant, Tyson Campbell, Cosmi

Something I'm wondering from most people is why they consider Barmore a reach at 17. What's your reason?

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, Jeremy408 said:

Something I'm wondering from most people is why they consider Barmore a reach at 17. What's your reason?

He's not that great of an athlete. Is not as twitchy as some of the former Alabama DTs. I don't see as much explosiveness in his game. Nothing jumps out at you on film. I think he's a decent DT who will have a role, but I don't see him translating as a pass rushing DT you would take at 17.

[Jeremy408]

7 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

He's not that great of an athlete. Is not as twitchy as some of the former Alabama DTs. I don't see as much explosiveness in his game. Nothing jumps out at you on film. I think he's a decent DT who will have a role, but I don't see him translating as a pass rushing DT you would take at 17.

So what’s your answer to the original post?

[big_palooka]

1. JOK, Paye, Darrisaw, Farley, 

2. Parsons 

3. Baremore, Jenkins, Moehrig, Grant

Of the players that get discussed. Weird questions honestly depending on who drops they could be worth the pick at 17. Likewise, there are like a dozen names that could be reaches. 

[Jeremy408]

Just now, big_palooka said:

1. JOK, Paye, Darrisaw, Farley, 

2. Parsons 

3. Baremore, Jenkins, Moehrig, Grant

Of the players that get discussed. Weird questions honestly depending on who drops they could be worth the pick at 17. Likewise, there are like a dozen names that could be reaches. 

I feel it. Interesting that you have Kwiti paye at #17. What’s the thought behind that?

[CaliforniaKid7]

44 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

He's not that great of an athlete. Is not as twitchy as some of the former Alabama DTs. I don't see as much explosiveness in his game. Nothing jumps out at you on film. I think he's a decent DT who will have a role, but I don't see him translating as a pass rushing DT you would take at 17.

I don't understand the "not that great of an athlete" bit with Barmore. 

His RAS is 8.25 which is plenty high. His pro-day numbers were right on par with previous Alabama DT's. 

6'4 310 and he run 4.93 which is almost identical to what Marcel Dareus put up when he came out of Bama and went top 3. Similar numbers to Daron Payne as well who was 20 pounds lighter as a prospect. Even Quinnen Williams was only .1 second faster than Barmore (4.83). 

IMO Barmore goes top 20. He's not an elite top 5 talent in this draft but he's being undervalued. He's a fine pick at 17. 

For all of the age guys out there Barmore is only 21 and RS Sophomore. He's far from a finished product. 

[big_palooka]

2 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

I feel it. Interesting that you have Kwiti paye at #17. What’s the thought behind that?

No thought other than I'd take him at 17 if he was available. I've seen some mocks that have him lower than others.

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, CaliforniaKid7 said:

I don't understand the "not that great of an athlete" bit with Barmore. 

His RAS is 8.25 which is plenty high. His pro-day numbers were right on par with previous Alabama DT's. 

6'4 310 and he run 4.93 which is almost identical to what Marcel Dareus put up when he came out of Bama and went top 3. Similar numbers to Daron Payne as well who was 20 pounds lighter as a prospect. Even Quinnen Williams was only .1 second faster than Barmore (4.83). 

IMO Barmore goes top 20. He's not an elite top 5 talent in this draft but he's being undervalued. He's a fine pick at 17. 

For all of the age guys out there Barmore is only 21 and RS Sophomore. He's far from a finished product. 

All athletic testing is skewed this offseason with no combine. I'm going purely off what I saw having watched nearly every Alabama game this season. He didn't jump of the screen. He's not quick in his change of direction when working to the ball. You see him wrestle blockers a lot and gets caught on double teams. His technique is raw. 

Wasn't anything special until the playoff run. Ohio State RG Wyatt Davis (plug and play NFL talent) locked him up in the Nat'l Champ game. Once he was injured, Barmore took advantage of a freshman replacement. I'd have liked to seen him 4 quaters against Davis.

I think he's loaded with potential. But at 17 and 48 I want to see someone who could impact the game quickly. Not a project which the Raiders have shown no ability to develop. 

[drfrey13]

6 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

All athletic testing is skewed this offseason with no combine. I'm going purely off what I saw having watched nearly every Alabama game this season. He didn't jump of the screen. He's not quick in his change of direction when working to the ball. You see him wrestle blockers a lot and gets caught on double teams. His technique is raw. 

Wasn't anything special until the playoff run. Ohio State RG Wyatt Davis (plug and play NFL talent) locked him up in the Nat'l Champ game. Once he was injured, Barmore took advantage of a freshman replacement. I'd have liked to seen him 4 quaters against Davis.

I think he's loaded with potential. But at 17 and 48 I want to see someone who could impact the game quickly. Not a project which the Raiders have shown no ability to develop. 

That is my only issue with Barmore is he is more of a project.  That will be the case for almost all DT their first year or two.  I would like some impact year 1 but I do not see this team making the playoffs this year anyways so I would not mind waiting a year for what could be the biggest impact player for our defense in this draft.  There are also other options that could pay off in a year or two but I would like to see them invest early in a decent 3T.

[OnlyGlove]

Good value: Darrisaw, JOK, Ojulari, Parsons, Paye

Steal: Surtain, Waddle,Horn, Philips,

Bad Value: Moehrig, Jenkins, Baremore, Cosmi, Grant

[oakdb36]

DTs rarely make a huge impact as rookies. The point a DT shouldn't be drafted high because he won't be good right now is weak and would apply to basically all the DTs ever. Just last year, Javon Kinlaw was all about potential too.

[Jeremy408]

2 hours ago, big_palooka said:

No thought other than I'd take him at 17 if he was available. I've seen some mocks that have him lower than others.

But what about how raw of a prospect he is or how he has like no pass rush moves though?

[MrOaktown_56]

When people say Moehrig is bad value, are they going off of his player evaluation or perceived value?