Ben Simmons officially asks to be traded

[Sllim Pickens]

1 minute ago, seminoles1 said:

There is absolutely nothing about his past or personality that makes me think that would happen.

https://sixerswire.usatoday.com/2020/07/03/al-horford-matisse-thybulle-praise-ben-simmons-as-vocal-leader/

His teammates say otherwise. 

[seminoles1]

3 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

https://sixerswire.usatoday.com/2020/07/03/al-horford-matisse-thybulle-praise-ben-simmons-as-vocal-leader/

His teammates say otherwise. 

So he talked to a rookie. Cool.

Horford didn't say anything about Simmons being a vocal leader. Said he led by example with his workouts. Incredibly different than holding all-star teammates accountable like you think he would.

[NYRaider]

2 minutes ago, seminoles1 said:

There is absolutely nothing about his past or personality that makes me think that would happen.

He doesn't have to hold them accountable though. Simmons is one of the best and most versatile defensive players in the league. One of the biggest issues for Simmons in Philadelphia is that his offensive game just doesn't fit well next to Embiid. KAT has averaged 2.8 3PM per game at a 40% clip over the last two seasons but is terrible defensively. D'Angelo Russell has averaged 2.9 3PM on a 39% clip last season and if they're able to keep Malik Beasley he averaged 3.5 3PM on a 40% clip last season. 

In Minnesota he'd be surrounded by shooters and would make a huge impact for them as a primary ball handler and defender. 

[Mox]

26 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

He still can score though without being an outside shooter.  Who cares if he is a 3 pt shooter if thats not his game, just like it wasn't Duncan's.  Utilize him the best way you can, which is as a playmaker and driver.  Surround him with shooters and when the shooters suck, dont blame him because thats not his game. 

Harden isn't a defender, so you have to put defenders around him.  He hasnt improved his defense in all of his years so why does he get a pass? 

Dame is a great shooter but doesnt make those around him better.  He isnt a playmaker that makes his teammates better and he doesnt play defense.  Why is he a top 10 player with those known deficiencies in his game? 

Steph struggles on defense, and his team missed the playoffs without other stars playing well around him.  

Brad Beal scores 30 but gives up 40 a game on a team that barely sneaks into the playoffs if they get there. Why hasnt he fixed that aspect of his game and become a better distributor?

Zion can't shoot from outside.  Why hasn't he been developing the three ball? 

Trae Young can't play D and is partly why they lost.  He also is inefficient but he got hot for a couple series. 

Every player has deficiencies. Every player has known weaknesses that they work on yet don't always improve on over their careers.  That only means they are a liability in the postseason if you don't mask those weaknesses and utilize their strengths. 

Ben has been to the second round of the playoffs every year he has been healthy.  In the losses to the Hawks, Ben was the only player on the 76ers with a positive +/- in all four games.  He played great D on Young when he was guarding him causing him to shoot 23% from three when guarded by Ben.  In game 7 he had 8 rebounds and 13 assists.  In that game, Harris shot 33% from the floor on 24 shots, 23% from 3.  In the game 5 loss Harris shot 15% from the floor on 11 shots.  He is a liability in the playoffs it seems.  In game 4 Embiid shot 20% on 20 shots, had 8 turnovers in each of the last two games, and had a 77, 79, and 83 offensive rating scores in the last three losses compared to his season average of 114.  But nope, its all Bens fault. 

Every player has weaknesses.  Do I wish Ben was better shooting?  For sure because he would be the best player in the league if he shot 40% from three.  But he isnt and I am ok with him being who he is and making his strengths bigger strengths while also working on weaknesses.  I don't know his leadership style, I am not in the locker room.  I don't know his work ethic, but I have seen plenty of videos of him shooting in the offseason every year and putting in work.  What I do know is a leader doesnt throw a teammate under the bus after a tough loss when they didnt play great themselves.  A leader as a coach doesnt throw one player under the bus when his system is not utilizing said players strengths.  Doc and Embiid have proven lack of leadsership in those aspects so I would say Ben is more of a leader than them.  

You want yes and no answers, thats because your mind is made up and you dont want facts and support that negate your made up opinion. If you want to hold Ben to a standard you don't hold every other player in the NBA, then thats on you.  I see a player and although I want to see progress, I also look at what they are improving on and if that makes up for their weaknesses.  

Okay, let's go through and continue to dismantle every point you've made.

What is this point? Ben Simmons isn't a good scorer. His inability to shoot absolutely holds him back here. 14 ppg on 58% TS isn't anywhere close to max player scoring. Neither is 12 ppg on 56% TS. Stop comparing Ben Simmons to Tim Duncan. They aren't similar players, the eras were different, and you know it's a dishonest BS comparison.

Harden is a better defender than Simmons is a shooter. Trae was injured. That plays a bigger reason in why they lost. PG defense is the least valuable of all the defensive positions. Zion has played 82 career games and is still better than Simmons as a shooter.

There are deficiencies and then there is Ben Simmons. He is well beyond that. His lack of shooting is an absolute liability in a way arguably no other NBA players skill is.

This is irrelevant. You're arguing points I've never made. I've called him an elite defender. I never absolved Embiid or Harris of blame on the court. I'm saying Ben Simmons limits your ceiling. That remains true.

If you're okay with Ben wasting his talent that's on you. Don't lower the rest of us to your level. Generally people who routinely underperform should be criticized. Especially when you are paid millions and have been coddled. Saying Embiid threw him under the bus is laughable. He blamed three people in his statement, including himself. Only one of them is hiding out at home. Doc said he believed in Simmons and then lied in his defense when he said he didn't know if he was a championship level PG. If that turns you into a petulant child...grow up.

I've responded to every point you've made and countered plenty of irrelevant arguments you've used to change the subject because you know at the end of the day I'm right. You can keep shilling as hard as you want but you're avoiding answering those questions because I'm right.

Edited September 1, 2021 by Bullet Club

[NYRaider]

1 hour ago, RandyMossIsBoss said:

He had Jimmy Butler, who surely held them 10x more accountable than a laid back personality like Ben ever would.

KAT wasn't nearly the same player or same shooter that he is now though and that Timberwolves team was the worst 3P shooting team in the NBA. I'd also argue that Ben Simmons is a better/more versatile defender than Jimmy and a way better playmaker as well. 

[Sllim Pickens]

Just now, seminoles1 said:

So he talked to a rookie. Cool.

Horford didn't say anything about Simmons being a vocal leader. Said he led by example with his workouts. Incredibly different than holding all-star teammates accountable like you think he would.

https://www.si.com/nba/76ers/news/joel-embiid-ben-simmons-vocal-leadership-role-sixers

https://www.phillyvoice.com/ben-simmons-leadership-jumper-vs-knicks-joel-embiid-al-horford-brett-brown/

https://heavy.com/sports/philadelphia-76ers/ben-simmons-leadership/

 

Theres a bunch more for you.  But keep ignoring what those close to him see and say and keep with the false narrative. 

[Mox]

2 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

He doesn't have to hold them accountable though. Simmons is one of the best and most versatile defensive players in the league. One of the biggest issues for Simmons in Philadelphia is that his offensive game just doesn't fit well next to Embiid. KAT has averaged 2.8 3PM per game at a 40% clip over the last two seasons but is terrible defensively. D'Angelo Russell has averaged 2.9 3PM on a 39% clip last season and if they're able to keep Malik Beasley he averaged 3.5 3PM on a 40% clip last season. 

In Minnesota he'd be surrounded by shooters and would make a huge impact for them as a primary ball handler and defender. 

You're arguing something I'm not. Re-read what I said. You and I agree. It's the "he'd hold them accountable" part I'm saying is wrong.

[NYRaider]

2 hours ago, Bullet Club said:

For sure, because contending isn't their goal. Making the playoffs for a few years would make them both ecstatic. For a team trying to win a title Simmons is a death sentence.

Of course, but Minnesota is under pressure from their new management group and adding Ben definitely takes them from bottom feeder to playoff contender. 

[Mox]

Just now, NYRaider said:

Of course, but Minnesota is under pressure from their new management group and adding Ben definitely takes them from bottom feeder to playoff contender. 

Again, I'm not disagreeing with that.

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, Bullet Club said:

You're arguing something I'm not. Re-read what I said. You and I agree. It's the "he'd hold them accountable" part I'm saying is wrong.

Yeah I don't view Ben as a great leader that's going to get everyone else to lock in defensively. But I think his defensive versatility and impact would make them better on that end. And on offense they have shooters everywhere. 

[seminoles1]

1 hour ago, Sllim Pickens said:

The point is though, you are judging him by others finished standards.  He has gradually improved and is working on it.  It is improving each year.  Maybe not as fast as you want but there is progress.  Assuming because he struggles to shoot that its a lazy issue is ridiculous.  If you think he is just sitting at home playing video games is a side story you developed.  If everyone could just be a good shooter, everyone would.  Not everyone has it or we all would be in the NBA.  He hasn't improved his shot dramatically but has improved every other aspect of his game, which seems to be no value to you since he still is a poor shooter. 

What exactly has he improved? All of his efficiency and advanced metrics have remained stagnant since year 1.

By year:

PER: 20.0, 20.0, 20.4, 18.6

TS%: 55.7%, 58.2%, 60.2%, 58.4%

REB%: 13.0%, 13.7%, 12.2%, 12.2%

AST%: 37.4%, 34.2%, 33.8%, 31.3%

BLK%: 2.1%, 1.8%, 1.4%, 1.7%

STL%: 2.5%, 2.0%, 2.9%, 2.4%

TOV%: 19.5%, 19.3%, 20.4%, 19.6%

WS/48: .162, .146, .165, .153

BPM: 4.5, 3.6, 3.6, 2.7

VORP: 4.5, 3.8, 2.8, 2.2

This player is improving?

Edited September 1, 2021 by seminoles1

[NYRaider]

2 hours ago, BStanRamFan said:

Lakers- No CLUE how the new team will fit together, but yes, they would lose the LAL.

Jazz- Did not get any better this offseason.

Get Ben Simmons and become 2nd best team in the West. Worth it. 

The Lakers are definitely a mystery team but could be better with Russ, just have to wait and see.

We didn't get better this off-season? Donovan Mitchell's continued progression alone will make us better and we had the best record in the league last season but Mitchell/Conley were both hurt in the playoffs. We kept our core players together and got more versatile on both ends of the floor. Rudy Gay replacing Niang in our rotation is a huge upgrade, Whiteside is an upgrade over Favors, Paschall is a versatile piece at the end of the bench, and Jared Butler should be able to give us decent minutes off the bench. 

The Warriors are essentially the same team that they were last year with two more rookies, one of which isn't even really ready to play. Klay Thompson is still hurt and is going to miss the first half of the season. And you genuinely think Ben Simmons/Draymond Green would work together offensively?

[Sllim Pickens]

5 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

Okay, let's go through and continue to dismantle every point you've made.

What is this point? Ben Simmons isn't a good scorer. His inability to shoot absolutely holds him back here. 14 ppg on 58% TS isn't anywhere close to max player scoring. Neither is 12 ppg on 56% TS. Stop comparing Ben Simmons to Tim Duncan. They aren't similar players, the eras were different, and you know it's a dishonest BS comparison.

Harden is a better defender than Simmons is a shooter. Trae was injured. That plays a bigger reason in why they lost. PG defense is the least valuable of all the defensive positions.

There are deficiencies and then there is Ben Simmons. He is well beyond that. His lack of shooting is an absolute liability in a way arguably no other NBA players skill is.

This is irrelevant. You're arguing points I've never made. I've called him an elite defender. I never absolved Embiid or Harris of blame on the court. I'm saying Ben Simmons limits your ceiling. That remains true.

If you're okay with Ben wasting his talent that's on you. Don't lower the rest of us to your level. Generally people who routinely underperform should to be criticized. Especially when you are paid millions and have been coddled. Saying Embiid threw him under the bus is laughable. He blamed three people in his statement, including himself. Only one of them is hiding out at home. Doc said he believed in Simmons and then lied in his defense when he said he didn't know if he was a championship level PG. If that turns you into a petulant child...grow up.

I've responded to every point you've made and countered plenty of irrelevant arguments you've used to change the subject because you know at the end of the day I'm right. You can keep shilling as hard as you want but you're avoiding answering those questions because I'm right.

Ben doesnt limit your ceiling any more than other players with weaknesses.  He has advanced in the playoffs and not won it all just like Harden, Dame, Paul, etc.  You think his shooting impacts ceilings but it doesn't.  His +/- is still positive in every loss to Atlanta.  Meaning when on the court, his defense outweighed his lack of offense.  

His shooting is a weakness, that can be masked.  Its not his game.  Why force it when its not his game.  He averages a triple double on 56% shooting, that is not a ceiling creator. 

Comparing to others liek Duncan isnt BS.  All players have their styles of play.  Bens is to average 16-18 a game, pass the ball, rebound and play elite defense.  With the right cats, that is super valuable and can win a championship.  

Again, you are holding Ben to a standard that no other star in the league seems to be having that same standard.  If you want ben to be Steph, continue to be disappointed.  If you want a better version of Draymond Green, then Ben is your man.  If you think scoring 30 a game is the only way to add value and remove a ceiling, go ask Brad Beal how thats working out. 

[NYRaider]

8 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

You're arguing something I'm not. Re-read what I said. You and I agree. It's the "he'd hold them accountable" part I'm saying is wrong.

Definitely, Ben's soft and not a great leader. But he'd still be a nice fit in Minnesota with KAT, DLo, and Beasley around him potentially. 

[Sllim Pickens]

8 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

You're arguing something I'm not. Re-read what I said. You and I agree. It's the "he'd hold them accountable" part I'm saying is wrong.

But even that is true, he will hold them accountable, according to all of the reports on his leadership the last three years. But I am guessing you think those first hand accounts are fake news right?