TheRealMcCoy Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 Graham is also real bad on defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 1 minute ago, MookieMonstah said: So what’s the big difference? Graham ranked 6th in defensive RPM. The biggest difference is name value. What makes Lonzo worlds better than Graham? I’ll concede he has more upside because of his length and athleticism. I think they are very different players. Lonzo is essentially an off guard / 3 and D wing where as Graham is more of your traditional scoring guard. But he's small and I was under the impression he wasn't as strong defensively. Either way - I think it's easier to envision a world where Lonzo is starting next to a stud initiator (like LaVine) and being a very good starter. He's like a bigger Pat Beverly with better playmaking + shooting. Hard for me to see a reality where Graham is good enough at what he does to be a good starter. I thought that Lonzo's fit with Zion was elite. With the rest of the roster....it doesn't really work as well. If at all. Which is part of why I'm so down on Griffin. But I will definitely say with the current roster I could see Graham doing pretty well. Generally speaking i just think it's unfortunate that they didn't do enough to keep Lonzo happy and didn't do enough to retain the talented player and build a more functional team. To me that's organizational failure, but obviously it is what it is at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieMonstah Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 1 minute ago, TheRealMcCoy said: Lonzo ain't even a great finisher, but he was 60.8% (last year) and 62.6% (this year) inside 0-3 feet. Devonte' Graham was 54.3% (last year) and 44% (this year) Do y'all realize how terrible that is? lol This is laughably bad. But, hey he can catch & shoot from 3. That’s really all you need around Zion lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieMonstah Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 1 minute ago, TheRealMcCoy said: Graham is also real bad on defense. Ranked 6th in defensive RPM which is one of the better defensive advanced stats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCoy Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 Just now, MookieMonstah said: Ranked 6th in defensive RPM which is one of the better defensive advanced stats I was just checking his defensive analytics and he was still below average, but not near as bad as his first 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieMonstah Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, champ11 said: I think they are very different players. Lonzo is essentially an off guard / 3 and D wing where as Graham is more of your traditional scoring guard. But he's small and I was under the impression he wasn't as strong defensively. Either way - I think it's easier to envision a world where Lonzo is starting next to a stud initiator (like LaVine) and being a very good starter. He's like a bigger Pat Beverly with better playmaking + shooting. Hard for me to see a reality where Graham is good enough at what he does to be a good starter. I thought that Lonzo's fit with Zion was elite. With the rest of the roster....it doesn't really work as well. If at all. Which is part of why I'm so down on Griffin. But I will definitely say with the current roster I could see Graham doing pretty well. Generally speaking i just think it's unfortunate that they didn't do enough to keep Lonzo happy and didn't do enough to retain the talented player and build a more functional team. To me that's organizational failure, but obviously it is what it is at this point. I don’t disagree with any of this. I wanted to keep Lonzo, they did what they could to keep him happy. At the end of the day, you’re New Orleans. It’s not a desirable market and the entire Ball family is about marketing their brand. Once he didn’t want to be here you literally couldn’t match the deal. It’s two separate deals so saying the Graham move sucks because Lonzo is better doesn’t make sense to me, you weren’t keeping Lonzo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieMonstah Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 1 minute ago, TheRealMcCoy said: I was just checking his defensive analytics and he was still below average, but not near as bad as his first 2 years. …he was the 6th best defensive guard according to RPM. I don’t think he’s an elite defender but he’s certainly not bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supersuavesky Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 5 minutes ago, TheRealMcCoy said: Graham is also real bad on defense. He most certainly is not. Stop talking out your ***. Graham's problem is he's undersized and stuggles to score inside. Other than that he's solid in pretty much every area. Advanced stats love him because he doesn't make many mistakes. He knows his role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCoy Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 1 minute ago, MookieMonstah said: That’s really all you need around Zion lol I mean yeah Zion is gonna get in the paint a ton. I mean he's solid and good in certain areas shooting wise from deep. When he's on he can get really hot, but I'd much prefer to have Zo and don't like that they gave up the pick like he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCoy Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 1 minute ago, Supersuavesky said: He most certainly is not. Stop talking out your ***. His defensive analytics his first 2 years were awful. He improved this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 3 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said: I don’t disagree with any of this. I wanted to keep Lonzo, they did what they could to keep him happy. At the end of the day, you’re New Orleans. It’s not a desirable market and the entire Ball family is about marketing their brand. Once he didn’t want to be here you literally couldn’t match the deal. It’s two separate deals so saying the Graham move sucks because Lonzo is better doesn’t make sense to me, you weren’t keeping Lonzo. I hear ya. I mean to me as an outside observer I'm just looking at the aggregate and I can't say I am impressed with Griffin and the moves from the past two years. JV is good (although to me pretty similar to Adams as a player, a little more shooting, but still not a true stretch) and Graham is a nice addition too. And they have a new coach. So end of the day if the product on the floor is better - that is what matters - even if I think some of the contracts + asset management has been quite bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supersuavesky Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 25 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Lonzo Ball is better? At? Certainly not the PnR, ball handling, or clutch scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieMonstah Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 1 minute ago, TheRealMcCoy said: His defensive analytics his first 2 years were awful. He improved this year. Lonzo’s shot was terrible his first two years. He’s a terrible shooter. See how silly that is. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supersuavesky Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 1 minute ago, TheRealMcCoy said: His defensive analytics his first 2 years were awful. He improved this year. He barely played his first year and the season before was a team that was purposely taking with him starting the season off the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supersuavesky Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 Also there are few players in the clutch who show up better. Graham will win NO some games off of sheer shenanigans alone. Charlotte was on a stupidly historical pace in the clutch before the injuries set in and he's a major part of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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