Preseason Week 1 GDT - Trey Lance Debut

[J-ALL-DAY]

2 hours ago, TecmoSuperJoe said:

Try not to be too sad J. 49ers can still go very far with Jimbo. 

Oh, trust me I know the team will still be very good with Jimmy. I just prefer to go with Lance but perfectly fine with Jimmy. The offense will be top 7-10 again. 

[Forge]

Pff gave Aaron banks a 0.0 pass blocking grade against KC 😂 I'm not even sure how that's possible

[NinerNation21]

Some All22 looks from the game:

 

Pretty harsh by PFF. This clip above is actually a positive play, IMO. 

Banks got put in a losing situation, but he gets just enough of the free runner to wash him out of the play. Gallman needed to fill in behind Banks a little quicker to give a clean pocket, but still gets his hands on the rusher to slow him down.

With all of that going on in front of Lance, he still steps up in the pocket and fires a beauty to James that should've been an 11-yard gain on 3rd & 8.  

 

Lance got too focused on pushing the ball down field for the 1st (he would've been short anyways) that he completely missed that Sermon was WIDE OPEN to his right in the flat. I get that we need 15 for the first, but Sermon could've gotten it just as close as the intended target.

 

McKivitz looks pretty good here picking up the stunt with one exception, he pushed his man into Moore, which clearly Moore didn't see because he tried to trip his man.

 

This is one of Banks' worst snaps of the game. It seems like he starts out in the right position by moving to his right to engage head on, but Wharton gives him a juke and Banks bit into it and couldn't recover fast enough. 

On the other side, Moore takes on a wide rusher who is trying to convert speed to power and throw in a little shimmy at the same time and Moore stonewalls him.

 

Same rusher on Moore again, but this time, he times the snap really well and blasts off the line and beats Moore for a sack. Moore did pick him up and get his hands on him, but it looks like he didn't have the leverage or the strength to push him past Lance.

BUT, Lance also missed his check down with Gallman right in front of him, which possibly could've gotten close to the 1st down marker.

 

I blame Lance more on this play than Banks. Banks picks up the stunt and carries his man across the formation, but Lance's feet are like cinderblocks, he's cemented into the ground and makes a poor throw. It appears he could've shifted to his right a little as the rusher was being pushed to his left for more room to step into the throw. 

He made the correct read, but was in poor position to make the throw.

 

Bad play by Lance. He's got a great pocket, but locks onto the target too soon, which forced the underneath defender to disengage with his man and pick up the intended target and nearly pick it.

 

Lance looks off the LB to free up the middle of the field for an easy completion, but holds onto the ball too long, then throws it too high. 

Edited August 17, 2021 by NinerNation21

[J-ALL-DAY]

@NinerNation21 I think Lance made the right read on 3rd and 15. Sermon only looked wide open because the DB quickly jumped the curl route. He had the responsibility of picking up the RB in the flat but diagnosed the play and reacted to it. That's where Lance's long release hurts him. Right decision but maybe he should have thrown it a split second earlier but honestly just a great play by the DB.

On the other near INT, he needed to hold the corner a split second longer by looking off the RB before firing it to Woerner. He just locked in too quickly to him and the corner was able to read and react to it. 

These are the types of mistakes that are to be expected for Lance. I can't believe folks like Grant are upset at the play calling when Lance is going to have to get good at these sorts of things to really take the next level. He's eventually going to have to progress as a pocket passer as teams will take away his legs. Let him live and learn from all his mistakes, will help in the long run. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

10 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

@NinerNation21 I think Lance made the right read on 3rd and 15. Sermon only looked wide open because the DB quickly jumped the curl route. He had the responsibility of picking up the RB in the flat but diagnosed the play and reacted to it. That's where Lance's long release hurts him. Right decision but maybe he should have thrown it a split second earlier but honestly just a great play by the DB.

On the other near INT, he needed to hold the corner a split second longer by looking off the RB before firing it to Woerner. He just locked in too quickly to him and the corner was able to read and react to it. 

These are the types of mistakes that are to be expected for Lance. I can't believe folks like Grant are upset at the play calling when Lance is going to have to get good at these sorts of things to really take the next level. He's eventually going to have to progress as a pocket passer as teams will take away his legs. Let him live and learn from all his mistakes, will help in the long run. 

Let me just add or make my point clearer. I don't necessarily think Lance is making the wrong reads, he's just not holding off the defenders long enough and isn't using his eyes the way he should. That kind of stuff just comes with experience. 

[NinerNation21]

34 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Let me just add or make my point clearer. I don't necessarily think Lance is making the wrong reads, he's just not holding off the defenders long enough and isn't using his eyes the way he should. That kind of stuff just comes with experience. 

I would agree with that. I think he looked too locked on to his targets, which is to be expected right now. I'm anxious to see what he looks like this weekend to see if he makes any adjustments to this. 

[Forge]

1 hour ago, NinerNation21 said:

Bad play by Lance. He's got a great pocket, but locks onto the target too soon, which forced the underneath defender to disengage with his man and pick up the intended target and nearly pick it.

 

This something that wasn't done much against him in college, but in limited sample, was effective against him. The most obvious being the game against Central Arkansas. Multiple times they rotated coverage post snap to mask what they were doing and it tripped him up. That's definitely one of those things that can improve with playing experience (though also not a guarantee to get better) 

1 hour ago, NinerNation21 said:

I blame Lance more on this play than Banks. Banks picks up the stunt and carries his man across the formation, but Lance's feet are like cinderblocks, he's cemented into the ground and makes a poor throw. It appears he could've shifted to his right a little as the rusher was being pushed to his left for more room to step into the throw. 

He made the correct read, but was in poor position to make the throw.

Agreed. I mean, not a great rep from Banks, but certainly not an awful one or anything. You can certainly live with that during a game. 

That's a weird play where I wonder if not wanting him to run impacted the result of that play. The receiver is there, so it's possible that Lance sticks with it even if he had the okay to move around and use his legs more, but I wonder if the actual NFL game he's not bouncing back deeper into the pocket and possibly rolling out .

1 hour ago, NinerNation21 said:

Same rusher on Moore again, but this time, he times the snap really well and blasts off the line and beats Moore for a sack. Moore did pick him up and get his hands on him, but it looks like he didn't have the leverage or the strength to push him past Lance.

BUT, Lance also missed his check down with Gallman right in front of him, which possibly could've gotten close to the 1st down marker.

I don't know that Gallman gets there...Cole is sitting on that checkdown. You are probably banking on Gallman breaking a tackle or two if he makes the catch. I don't hate going that route, and I don't think Lance is afraid of going for a checkdown based on what we have heard from camp at various points, so I'm not sure what happened here. His LOS to Gallman may have been blocked by linemen based on the look, or he could have had his eyes downfield...I can't really say what's going on in that clip tbh as I don't know what Trey was looking at. 

As for the Sermon check down, I'm perfectly fine with his throw but he's got to be earlier. It's not the greatest look of what is in the area around Sermon to say for sure. Jennings should work back instead of sitting on the end of a curl, but he may have done that for first down purposes. 

The checkdown thing is interesting because I know that we as fans get quickly fed up with 3rd and 12's turning into a the 7 yard checkdown. 

[Forge]

2 hours ago, NinerNation21 said:

Pretty harsh by PFF. This clip above is actually a positive play, IMO. 

Their grading system is just a bit of a joke sometimes. Specifically with regards to offensive line and secondary play because they have no idea what the individual player's responsibility is. 

 

[JIllg]

4 minutes ago, Forge said:

Their grading system is just a bit of a joke sometimes. Specifically with regards to offensive line and secondary play because they have no idea what the individual player's responsibility is. 

 

Right, and they have to work with so many players on so many plays so quickly. They are really good at charting OL/DL wins and losses and giving you a general idea if a QB is throwing balls to correct locations, but the latter part relies on receivers being the correct spot, and they can only guess on that - it should work over large samples, but only if you aren't stuck with stupid/terrible receivers. Their defensive back metrics rely on end results - did a catch happen when you were the closest person in coverage? How far away from it were you? And those end results only occur after a number of things happen that are outside a defensive back's control. Pass rush, scheme, communication, etc. Linebacker metrics rely (like old school baseball fielding metrics) on whether or not you are making/missing tackles without accounting for getting to more plays. All of these things are understandable early analytical quirks and the sense of superiority that accompanies those metrics is pretty natural too - the baseball metrics guys were smugly talking about how much better Adam Dunn was than scrappy defensive player X because of measurable offensive metrics without understanding just how many runs Dunn was giving away defensively and just how many runs player X could save defensively. Defense was just a lot harder to quantify quickly. Those same analytics guys were dead right about the value of walks and home runs and were right to be constantly fighting for most of their conclusions. Anyhow - I dig PFF's OL/DL stuff and some of the QB metrics and use them as a part of a broader understanding of the sport. I dig at least the attempt to quantify and identify unearthed value in a sport that has a lot of old traditions. I dig the pointing out that sacks are less important and more variable than their underlying causes and that running backs are largely a product of their environment. These can lead to more accurate thinking about the sport. Some of their other conclusions will slowly adapt as more and better data becomes available. This is how analytics work. 

[NinerNation21]

52 minutes ago, Forge said:

Their grading system is just a bit of a joke sometimes. Specifically with regards to offensive line and secondary play because they have no idea what the individual player's responsibility is. 

 

I think you're being too nice. Their grading system is a complete joke. Once I found out that just about anyone can be a grader for them, regardless of football knowledge, it completely ruled out their validity for me. 

I know one of the graders and he's an idiot who only plays madden and casually watches prime-time games if he happens to be in front of a tv. 

[49ersfan]

Thread on Lenoir. Seems like he had himself a good game. 

With Lenoir & Hufanga, its possible Lynch struck gold in the 5th round yet again

[Forge]

😂

[757-NINER]

1 hour ago, 49ersfan said:

With Lenoir & Hufanga, its possible Lynch struck gold in the 5th round yet again

Just need him to be better in the first three rounds and we'll be cooking with hot grease....

[757-NINER]

I'll say again, I really like Lenoir....

Edited August 17, 2021 by 757-NINER

[JIllg]

14 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

Just need him to be better in the first three rounds and we'll be cooking with hot grease....

To my understanding from a couple of articles, the late rounders are largely the gifts given to the scouting team + analytics department. The coaching staff has a much larger say before that.