Crazy Trade Idea Between The Lions and Dolphins

[diehardlionfan]

22 minutes ago, LionArkie said:

Yeah, we'e not going to agree on this. 

As far as Sewell getting drafted as the best prospect, you are correct. And his position was LT where he excelled. Sewell himself has said LT and RT are not the same.

https://www.nfl.com/news/lions-rookie-penei-sewell-admits-moving-to-right-tackle-not-that-easy

I get where you are coming from and when I said Decker was a place holder, well it was worded badly in which I tried to correct in an edit. When I say place holder, I mean for the next couple of years. I don't think anyone here thinks in five years time, Decker will still be on the left and Sewell will be on the right. If we were competitive today, I would say keep Decker on the left and Sewell on the right...but we are not. If the whole thing is to prepare for 2022 and beyond, I say take the growing pains of Sewell on the left today rather than getting him acclimated to the right, possibly hurt his confidence, and when we are competetive make him adjust back to the left. I don't understand why you would do that especially since he is "okay" at the left.

And yes, we are assuming an experienced NFL LT can adjust to the right, but he already has his confidence. I don't think you're going to hurt it. I have always thought Decker would be an elite RT. So with the mindset of Decker being an elite RT, I believe the Lions with Sewell LT and Decker RT > than Decker LT and Sewell RT. This is a compliment to Decker and his skill set.

As far as sending the messages to the vets, well so far it has been all about getting rookies time to play and gain experience so I think it doesn't send that the message you think it will. The only message I think it sends is we are building for tomorrow.

I also don't know what we're blowing up? All things out of camp was Sewell didn't look good on the right at all and was struggling. He hasn't on the left so...by putting him in a better position to succeed and where he has performed better is blowing it up? Sorry I disagree. Ultimately, I'm betting Decker is better at right than Sewell is and that Sewell is better at the Left than he is on the right.

In the end, it's a good problem to have. But in a year that is all about growing pains and rookies, I'd prefer to let the rookies get the reps at their intended future positions rather than experiment with them, possibly just to transition them back later.

In the end, I fully expect the Lions will do exactly what you want them to do. I just don't think it is the right move.

Sewell hasn’t been as good as some of you are making out. He’s a rookie and needs to get acclimated, learn how to be a pro.

The facts are that Decker is a better LT than Sewell. I think Sewell, over time, has the potential to be better but until he is Decker should remain the LT.

Sewells comments about RT aren’t surprising. It’s a new position. That doesn’t mean he can’t be an awesome RT. He has a tremendous amount of learning regardless of position.

Of course it’s the wrong message. A top 10, perhaps higher, LT, gets injured and is replaced by a rookie with 3 games experience. 

Sewell hasn’t earned the LT job yet a bunch of you are okay just giving it to him and moving the better LT to RT. So the result is Decker loses his job due to injury. That’s totally the wrong message. It undermines the entire coaching philosophy of earning your job.

 

[LionArkie]

7 minutes ago, diehardlionfan said:

Sewell hasn’t been as good as some of you are making out. He’s a rookie and needs to get acclimated, learn how to be a pro.

The facts are that Decker is a better LT than Sewell. I think Sewell, over time, has the potential to be better but until he is Decker should remain the LT.

Sewells comments about RT aren’t surprising. It’s a new position. That doesn’t mean he can’t be an awesome RT. He has a tremendous amount of learning regardless of position.

Of course it’s the wrong message. A top 10, perhaps higher, LT, gets injured and is replaced by a rookie with 3 games experience. 

Sewell hasn’t earned the LT job yet a bunch of you are okay just giving it to him and moving the better LT to RT. So the result is Decker loses his job due to injury. That’s totally the wrong message. It undermines the entire coaching philosophy of earning your job.

 

So at what point do you move Sewell as he will never be able to prove he is the better LT as long as Decker wears a Lions uniform? When Decker retires?

[diehardlionfan]

32 minutes ago, LionArkie said:

So at what point do you move Sewell as he will never be able to prove he is the better LT as long as Decker wears a Lions uniform? When Decker retires?

Perhaps never. How about Sewell improves his play to a point where he earns the position?

Coaches watch players in practice etc. I expect they will be able to tell when he’s ready, if ever. Your position is full of assumptions about Sewells ability. You are prepared to make assumptions about how good he will become at LT but won’t allow the same assumptions about his performance on the right side.

Bottom line is he is not as good as Decker at LT and the Lions need a RT. Last season Decker graded out 5th in pass blocking. You don’t just throw the guy away on a hunch. Sewell has to earn it.

If Jefferson gets in the lineup and has a few okay games does Swift or Williams lose their job?

I’m all in favour of the youngsters playing and learning but competency has to be part of the decision. If the rookie can’t get it done then they shouldn’t be playing. Look at the Collins situation.. His poor play was obvious. They didn’t just give his job away.

I think position assignment will become obvious through coaching and organic growth. All this talk is really premature in my view. Doing something NOW is forcing the issue when it doesn’t need to be forced. 

We don’t agree on this and likely won’t because our differences on this topic are philosophical more than anything. If they were to trade Decker, at least in my view, the Lions are immediately looking for another tackle. 

Time will sort out the tackle situation. 

Now, if Sewell continues to improve and can find consistency and reaches a point where coaches feel he will be the better player (Decker holding him back) then perhaps they look at a return for Decker during the draft. Assuming Nelson has shown he’s starting RT material. It’s all about competency for the oline and the return. Picks don’t improve competency, only players do. So blindly getting picks by trading away a key piece of the oline isn’t smart in my view. 

Personally I’m not in favour of any move that weakens the oline. We’ve waited decades for the Lions to have a quality oline. How many times have we complained about not being able to run the ball? They still aren’t where they need to be but it’s improved. Why throw that away at this point?

 

 

 

[LionArkie]

31 minutes ago, diehardlionfan said:

Perhaps never. How about Sewell improves his play to a point where he earns the position?

Coaches watch players in practice etc. I expect they will be able to tell when he’s ready, if ever. Your position is full of assumptions about Sewells ability. You are prepared to make assumptions about how good he will become at LT but won’t allow the same assumptions about his performance on the right side.

Bottom line is he is not as good as Decker at LT and the Lions need a RT. Last season Decker graded out 5th in pass blocking. You don’t just throw the guy away on a hunch. Sewell has to earn it.

If Jefferson gets in the lineup and has a few okay games does Swift or Williams lose their job?

I’m all in favour of the youngsters playing and learning but competency has to be part of the decision. If the rookie can’t get it done then they shouldn’t be playing. Look at the Collins situation.. His poor play was obvious. They didn’t just give his job away.

I think position assignment will become obvious through coaching and organic growth. All this talk is really premature in my view. Doing something NOW is forcing the issue when it doesn’t need to be forced. 

We don’t agree on this and likely won’t because our differences on this topic are philosophical more than anything. If they were to trade Decker, at least in my view, the Lions are immediately looking for another tackle. 

Time will sort out the tackle situation. 

Now, if Sewell continues to improve and can find consistency and reaches a point where coaches feel he will be the better player (Decker holding him back) then perhaps they look at a return for Decker during the draft. Assuming Nelson has shown he’s starting RT material. It’s all about competency for the oline and the return. Picks don’t improve competency, only players do. So blindly getting picks by trading away a key piece of the oline isn’t smart in my view. 

Personally I’m not in favour of any move that weakens the oline. We’ve waited decades for the Lions to have a quality oline. How many times have we complained about not being able to run the ball? They still aren’t where they need to be but it’s improved. Why throw that away at this point?

 

 

 

Ok just for the record, I'm not onboard with trading Decker, which is what this thread is about. I was only onboard of trading him IF the coaching staff says to Decker they believe the better long term move for the team is moving Sewell to the left and Decker to the right and Decker refuses. Then it is Decker about Decker and not the better of the organizationi. I agree trading him now only creates another hole to deal with and with that, I'm in full agreement with you.

And I will agree that my whole take is assumptions, including the Lions will get better (which I'm not necessarily in that camp yet). But it is also an assumption Decker will be the better LT in 2022 or 2023 than Sewell (although a better assumption than mine). Since we are not playing for 2021, I'm rolling the dice in giving Sewell the experience to see what we have. If Sewell fails at RT which in my mind doesn't necessarily mean he fails at LT, then what? There could be enough evidence that move this past an assumption because of training camp. He has shown flashes of being really good at LT against one of the best DE in the NFL. This is a fact and not an assumption. He also has had a bad game, against the Ravens as your PFF grades pointed out (but seriously, how about Okwara 91+). I expect this from a rookie LT (calling on former Decker rookie posts here). This is part of the growing pains I want to be rid of in 2022 and not later.

I'm not in total disagreement with you, I'm just more playing for the future since this is the statement the Lions staff said they were doing. But yes, our philosophies are different and I don't think yours is wrong, I just like mine better 😉

*edit - one more thing I want to hit on - and that is the Jefferson/Swift comparison. If Jefferson has a few okay games, no Swift/Williams should not lose their jobs.  As them losing their jobs means they are on the bench and not contributing.  I never said to bench Decker and I don't see it as him "losing his job" as I see him changing his position. Maybe its semantics, but to me it is an entirely different thing.  Decker will still be starting and on the field where Swift/Williams wouldn't be. To me, that's vastly different.

Edited September 29, 2021 by LionArkie

[Sllim Pickens]

1 hour ago, diehardlionfan said:

Sewell hasn’t been as good as some of you are making out. He’s a rookie and needs to get acclimated, learn how to be a pro.

The facts are that Decker is a better LT than Sewell. I think Sewell, over time, has the potential to be better but until he is Decker should remain the LT.

Sewells comments about RT aren’t surprising. It’s a new position. That doesn’t mean he can’t be an awesome RT. He has a tremendous amount of learning regardless of position.

Of course it’s the wrong message. A top 10, perhaps higher, LT, gets injured and is replaced by a rookie with 3 games experience. 

Sewell hasn’t earned the LT job yet a bunch of you are okay just giving it to him and moving the better LT to RT. So the result is Decker loses his job due to injury. That’s totally the wrong message. It undermines the entire coaching philosophy of earning your job.

 

I think its less to do with Sewell outplaying him at LT as it is if he is better at RT than Sewell is.  The point is to have the best line, and if Sewell is significantly worse at Rt than LT, but Decker is consistent on either side, the line is better with decker on the right.  I think most of us realize that Decker is the better LT right now, but what Sewell showed on the right side was enough to not be playing, so if Decker can make that switch easier, then its worth a try for the overall good of the line.  And if Decker is a true pro, he will understand that.  If Decker sucks on the right side, then you move Sewell back or inside for now and start Decker.  But as coaches, you owe it to everyone to find the right combination and that may be with Sewell at LT and Decker at RT. 

[SimbaWho]

11 hours ago, diehardlionfan said:

So, let me make sure I understand. You’re concerned about Sewell at RT yet you support moving the Lions best LT to right tackle or guard. You assume Decker can play RT or guard yet won’t make the same assumptions about Sewell whom you seem to think is the better player. 

I certainly don’t support moving a very good LT to the right side because a highly drafted rookie has played a few games and looked okay. It’s not the right message to send the players. Years of quality play erased by a rookie who played okay for a few games.

Its curious to me that as soon as the Lions approach a level of competency in a position ( we’ve waited years for), fans want to blow it up.

I'm watching the Youngest LT in NFL history play against some of the best pass rushers and do really well. Not just average. He's the youngest LT ever, who didn't even practice at LT all but one week and sat out an entire year before that also. It is an assumption on my part but yes I'm assuming he'll get better and better as he plays more and more vs struggle as he continues on. I think I'm watching something extremely special. I think Sewell is going to be better than Decker at LT and this is a good year for his growing pains at the position. I think Sewell is going to be Walter Jones 2.0.

I am concerned with Sewell at RT cause, in preseason, god he just didn't look good. Might be total bs idk really... If he looked good at RT I wouldn't be saying anything right now but he's only looked good on the left side from what I've been able to see as a fan. Idk what Decker can do on the right side but I'm willing to try it.

I believe Decker has played RT at Ohio State before. But, likely, LG is an easier transition(For either player Sewell/Decker). I personally don't think Decker will move to either position cause of future contract value and will be the reason Lions end up trading him. I wouldn't hate Sewell at LG, but this problem will again eventually make it's head when Sewell is a FA or Decker becomes a FA.

Idk why your suggesting I'm blowing something up right now that Decker technically hasn't even been apart of yet. I'm not saying Decker is bad at all, at all, he's really good; but I mean honestly you don't know what anything looks like with Taylor Decker in the mix with this line, you just know what you see now and what you saw in preseason. It's possible both guys are only good at LT and so what do you do then? Trade/move around the guy outside of the teams rebuild time line(Sewell) cause currently Decker might be the better overall player. That could totally change with a year at LT and another off-season for Sewell. I think he's going to be the better player within 1-2 years. I'm not going to be mad or think anyone is crazy for saying Taylor Decker will still be the better player cause, well he's a proven commodity in this league, is really good and I'm taking a leap of faith a bit and assuming Sewell will evolve more as he plays more. I think I know what my eyes are seeing in Sewell. Pre-draft I was defending Decker and saying he's a top 10 LT(maybe not top 10 but a top 3rd, top 15 LT for sure.) and would understand a Fields/ QB selection even though I wanted Sewell. I don't hate Taylor Decker it's just a situation now cause Sewell is good at LT and so young. There's no message to be sent other than you're outside of the rebuild time line. It's a situation cause by no ones fault/doing. 

QB/OLine/Pass rush is how I love to build a football team so, I'm not saying trade Decker and abandon the line. I'm saying the line is pretty good now, use Decker to go fill holes like WR/CB/LB/Pass Rush. RG right now is this teams weakest position on the line and theoretically is the easiest positions to find on the Oline. 

 

Edited September 30, 2021 by SimbaWho

[diehardlionfan]

On 9/29/2021 at 12:30 PM, Sllim Pickens said:

I think its less to do with Sewell outplaying him at LT as it is if he is better at RT than Sewell is.  The point is to have the best line, and if Sewell is significantly worse at Rt than LT, but Decker is consistent on either side, the line is better with decker on the right.  I think most of us realize that Decker is the better LT right now, but what Sewell showed on the right side was enough to not be playing, so if Decker can make that switch easier, then its worth a try for the overall good of the line.  And if Decker is a true pro, he will understand that.  If Decker sucks on the right side, then you move Sewell back or inside for now and start Decker.  But as coaches, you owe it to everyone to find the right combination and that may be with Sewell at LT and Decker at RT. 

If Decker shows in practice he’s better at RT that doesn’t erase the fact Sewell isn’t as good as Decker on the left.

Where do you want your best tackle playing?

[diehardlionfan]

19 hours ago, SimbaWho said:

I'm watching the Youngest LT in NFL history play against some of the best pass rushers and do really well. Not just average. He's the youngest LT ever, who didn't even practice at LT all but one week and sat out an entire year before that also. It is an assumption on my part but yes I'm assuming he'll get better and better as he plays more and more vs struggle as he continues on. I think I'm watching something extremely special. I think Sewell is going to be better than Decker at LT and this is a good year for his growing pains at the position. I think Sewell is going to be Walter Jones 2.0.

I am concerned with Sewell at RT cause, in preseason, god he just didn't look good. Might be total bs idk really... If he looked good at RT I wouldn't be saying anything right now but he's only looked good on the left side from what I've been able to see as a fan. Idk what Decker can do on the right side but I'm willing to try it.

I believe Decker has played RT at Ohio State before. But, likely, LG is an easier transition(For either player Sewell/Decker). I personally don't think Decker will move to either position cause of future contract value and will be the reason Lions end up trading him. I wouldn't hate Sewell at LG, but this problem will again eventually make it's head when Sewell is a FA or Decker becomes a FA.

Idk why your suggesting I'm blowing something up right now that Decker technically hasn't even been apart of yet. I'm not saying Decker is bad at all, at all, he's really good; but I mean honestly you don't know what anything looks like with Taylor Decker in the mix with this line, you just know what you see now and what you saw in preseason. It's possible both guys are only good at LT and so what do you do then? Trade/move around the guy outside of the teams rebuild time line(Sewell) cause currently Decker might be the better overall player. That could totally change with a year at LT and another off-season for Sewell. I think he's going to be the better player within 1-2 years. I'm not going to be mad or think anyone is crazy for saying Taylor Decker will still be the better player cause, well he's a proven commodity in this league, is really good and I'm taking a leap of faith a bit and assuming Sewell will evolve more as he plays more. I think I know what my eyes are seeing in Sewell. Pre-draft I was defending Decker and saying he's a top 10 LT(maybe not top 10 but a top 3rd, top 15 LT for sure.) and would understand a Fields/ QB selection even though I wanted Sewell. I don't hate Taylor Decker it's just a situation now cause Sewell is good at LT and so young. There's no message to be sent other than you're outside of the rebuild time line. It's a situation cause by no ones fault/doing. 

QB/OLine/Pass rush is how I love to build a football team so, I'm not saying trade Decker and abandon the line. I'm saying the line is pretty good now, use Decker to go fill holes like WR/CB/LB/Pass Rush. RG right now is this teams weakest position on the line and theoretically is the easiest positions to find on the Oline. 

 

We certainly disagree on Sewell proficiency at LT. He’s shown flashes but not enough to even consider him the LT now. 

[Sllim Pickens]

2 hours ago, diehardlionfan said:

If Decker shows in practice he’s better at RT that doesn’t erase the fact Sewell isn’t as good as Decker on the left.

Where do you want your best tackle playing?

I want the best O line as a group.  So if that means a slightly lower LT to have an elite RT, that makes the line better.  A slightly better LT with a bad RT, is a worse OL overall. Not everyone transitions to the other side, so maybe Sewell figures it out some after shaking off some rust.  Maybe Decker is bad at RT too.  If thats the case, you have to play with positions to make the best OL possible.  If they have to move Sewell to LG, and he excels there, so be it, I just want the best OL overall.  

[Sllim Pickens]

2 hours ago, diehardlionfan said:

We certainly disagree on Sewell proficiency at LT. He’s shown flashes but not enough to even consider him the LT now. 

I disagree with that.  He had a shaky third game against a good defense.  On the season he has been pretty good.  He will have some growing pains but that comes with the territory.  I would rather figure out those growing pains now while we arent competing for anything anyways.  If he repeats his performance against the Ravens on a regular, than you are correct. 

[jrry32]

8 hours ago, diehardlionfan said:

If Decker shows in practice he’s better at RT that doesn’t erase the fact Sewell isn’t as good as Decker on the left.

Where do you want your best tackle playing?

You gotta get your five best out there. Sewell looks a lot better at LT than RT. If Decker is comfortable at RT, you stick him there imo.

[diehardlionfan]

12 hours ago, jrry32 said:

You gotta get your five best out there. Sewell looks a lot better at LT than RT. If Decker is comfortable at RT, you stick him there imo.

Best 5 I absolutely agree with. My view is you want your best tackle playing the left side. Sewell is going to be a great player but isn’t currently better than Decker. What everyone is advocating is giving the job to a rookie with three games under his belt. A rookie who is inferior to Decker. 
 

[diehardlionfan]

18 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I disagree with that.  He had a shaky third game against a good defense.  On the season he has been pretty good.  He will have some growing pains but that comes with the territory.  I would rather figure out those growing pains now while we arent competing for anything anyways.  If he repeats his performance against the Ravens on a regular, than you are correct. 

Slim, he has a grade of 62 overall. That doesn’t cut it. He was progressing at RT and he IS the right tackle. Your opinion of him being pretty good which when I’ve seen him play well it’s because he has help. 

Decker had the fourth highest pass protection grade last year. He was only beaten 11 times!! 

So you want a rookie with a 62 grade to displace Decker so he can be moved to a position he doesn’t play.

If/when the time comes I would have no problem with a switch but that time hasn’t arrived.

[diehardlionfan]

18 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I want the best O line as a group.  So if that means a slightly lower LT to have an elite RT, that makes the line better.  A slightly better LT with a bad RT, is a worse OL overall. Not everyone transitions to the other side, so maybe Sewell figures it out some after shaking off some rust.  Maybe Decker is bad at RT too.  If thats the case, you have to play with positions to make the best OL possible.  If they have to move Sewell to LG, and he excels there, so be it, I just want the best OL overall.  

Slight lower left tackle? I can really even address that further because Decker is far superior to Sewell at this point.

[diehardlionfan]

On 9/29/2021 at 8:55 PM, SimbaWho said:

I'm watching the Youngest LT in NFL history play against some of the best pass rushers and do really well. Not just average. He's the youngest LT ever, who didn't even practice at LT all but one week and sat out an entire year before that also. It is an assumption on my part but yes I'm assuming he'll get better and better as he plays more and more vs struggle as he continues on. I think I'm watching something extremely special. I think Sewell is going to be better than Decker at LT and this is a good year for his growing pains at the position. I think Sewell is going to be Walter Jones 2.0.

I am concerned with Sewell at RT cause, in preseason, god he just didn't look good. Might be total bs idk really... If he looked good at RT I wouldn't be saying anything right now but he's only looked good on the left side from what I've been able to see as a fan. Idk what Decker can do on the right side but I'm willing to try it.

I believe Decker has played RT at Ohio State before. But, likely, LG is an easier transition(For either player Sewell/Decker). I personally don't think Decker will move to either position cause of future contract value and will be the reason Lions end up trading him. I wouldn't hate Sewell at LG, but this problem will again eventually make it's head when Sewell is a FA or Decker becomes a FA.

Idk why your suggesting I'm blowing something up right now that Decker technically hasn't even been apart of yet. I'm not saying Decker is bad at all, at all, he's really good; but I mean honestly you don't know what anything looks like with Taylor Decker in the mix with this line, you just know what you see now and what you saw in preseason. It's possible both guys are only good at LT and so what do you do then? Trade/move around the guy outside of the teams rebuild time line(Sewell) cause currently Decker might be the better overall player. That could totally change with a year at LT and another off-season for Sewell. I think he's going to be the better player within 1-2 years. I'm not going to be mad or think anyone is crazy for saying Taylor Decker will still be the better player cause, well he's a proven commodity in this league, is really good and I'm taking a leap of faith a bit and assuming Sewell will evolve more as he plays more. I think I know what my eyes are seeing in Sewell. Pre-draft I was defending Decker and saying he's a top 10 LT(maybe not top 10 but a top 3rd, top 15 LT for sure.) and would understand a Fields/ QB selection even though I wanted Sewell. I don't hate Taylor Decker it's just a situation now cause Sewell is good at LT and so young. There's no message to be sent other than you're outside of the rebuild time line. It's a situation cause by no ones fault/doing. 

QB/OLine/Pass rush is how I love to build a football team so, I'm not saying trade Decker and abandon the line. I'm saying the line is pretty good now, use Decker to go fill holes like WR/CB/LB/Pass Rush. RG right now is this teams weakest position on the line and theoretically is the easiest positions to find on the Oline. 

 

Really? Decker was the 4th ranked LT at pass protection which is something GOFF needs. I’m not going to comment anymore because we all see different, current, ability from Sewell.