Sacksonville: The Next Orange Crush/Legion of Boom?

[Soko]

@LinderFournette

You can compare their numbers all you want. By this logic, Dak and Wentz are going to beat out Brady. Alex Smith in his 3rd year and Blake Bortles now are not similar players. The only thing I can say about them both is that early in their careers, they’ve struggled with mechanics (although different aspects). 

Bortles had and still has a gunslinger mentality, something Smith never had. In fact, throughout most of Smith’s career, he was reluctant to throw deep and often took sacks due to it (and so-so pocket presence). I’d argue most of Alex Smith’s teams in his early career are far more talentless than this Jags team, but Bortles is still struggling. His development happened after being coached by both Mike McCarthy and Jim Harbaugh (the latter of which also had a good team to surround Smith with), yet Bortles is still mediocre at best after apparently spending a whole offseason on his mechanics.

Bortles on the other hand has a bigger arm and like I said earlier, a gunslinger mentality. Best case scenarios, gunslingers learn to be a bit smarter about their throws but they’re still going to make bizarre decisions every now and again by trying to force it. It’s fine and you can live with that if the QB both A) makes sound decisions most of the times, and B) is accurate. Bortles has displayed the inability to do either of those for most of his career. 

Maybe Bortles cleans things up and becomes a good QB, he has the talent. But it won’t be because he’s similar to Smith or because “hey if this guy can do it, so can this one”. 

[LinderFournette]

25 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

@LinderFournette

You can compare their numbers all you want. By this logic, Dak and Wentz are going to beat out Brady. Alex Smith in his 3rd year and Blake Bortles now are not similar players. The only thing I can say about them both is that early in their careers, they’ve struggled with mechanics (although different aspects). 

Bortles had and still has a gunslinger mentality, something Smith never had. In fact, throughout most of Smith’s career, he was reluctant to throw deep and often took sacks due to it (and so-so pocket presence). I’d argue most of Alex Smith’s teams in his early career are far more talentless than this Jags team, but Bortles is still struggling. His development happened after being coached by both Mike McCarthy and Jim Harbaugh (the latter of which also had a good team to surround Smith with), yet Bortles is still mediocre at best after apparently spending a whole offseason on his mechanics.

Bortles on the other hand has a bigger arm and like I said earlier, a gunslinger mentality. Best case scenarios, gunslingers learn to be a bit smarter about their throws but they’re still going to make bizarre decisions every now and again by trying to force it. It’s fine and you can live with that if the QB both A) makes sound decisions most of the times, and B) is accurate. Bortles has displayed the inability to do either of those for most of his career. 

Maybe Bortles cleans things up and becomes a good QB, he has the talent. But it won’t be because he’s similar to Smith or because “hey if this guy can do it, so can this one”. 

you wanna look at bortles Teams? try a Talentless Roster essentially from his rookie year and gradually talent grew up/got brought it. 

id argue the Jags Supporting Cast was Worse then what Smith has had. 

look at the Jags Running game prior to this season: TJ Yeldon, Chris Ivory, Toby Gerhart, Denard Robinson.  youd be crazy to take those guys over Frank Gore. 

wr wise im not sure that either team has a Clear Advantage with Crabtree vs A-rob.  Brandon Lloyd vs Marquise lee granted smith didnt have lloyd and crabtree at the same time but u make it seem like Bortles has all this Great supporting cast Advantage and he clearly hasnt.  

Vernon davis vs Marcedes lewis is a Push.

id give a Slight edge to 49ers Oline as prior to this year the jags Oline sucked. 

Bortles Biggest Problem is hes "not a natural thrower of the football".  His Mechanics look better then last years mess. 

heres a legitimate Question for ya: What QB would be doing great behind an Average Oline at best(im not buying this Jags oline as top 16) and Loses his Best Pass Catcher(A-rob) besides someone like Brady? 

Bortles has shown hes turned a slight corner this year with taking a lil better control of the football and is Making better decisions with the football(throw aways vs Taking sacks).  hes always gonna be a guy who takes a risk or 2 but im fine with him taking a few risks if hes gonna play more like the Bortles we had vs the colts then the Bortles vs the titans. 

[Soko]

 

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look at the Jags Running game prior to this season: TJ Yeldon, Chris Ivory, Toby Gerhart, Denard Robinson.  youd be crazy to take those guys over Frank Gore. 

Why prior to this year? Bortles is mediocre even with a strong running game.

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wr wise im not sure that either team has a Clear Advantage with Crabtree vs A-rob.  Brandon Lloyd vs Marquise lee granted smith didnt have lloyd and crabtree at the same time but u make it seem like Bortles has all this Great supporting cast Advantage and he clearly hasnt.  

Where to begin...Crabtree was drafted in 2009 and Smith was drafted in 2005. Meaning he and Crabs didn't play together until after his 4th year (didn't play in 08) - Blake is in his 4th year now and has had Robinson, who is clearly superior to what Crabs was early in his NFL tenure. Now exactly an apples-to-apples comparison. Plus, Crabtree was really seen as a bust until Harbaugh got to San Fran. He wasn't a consistent player prior to that.

Bringing up Brandon Lloyd? The guy who played one year with Alex Smith (in which Smith only appeared in 9 games as a rookie) and caught less than 50 catches for 730ish yards? Lloyd isn't someone to boast about having on your team (unless you're that Broncos team).

Bortles does have a good supporting cast. Bortles is supported by a good line, great defense, great running game, and average receivers. Smith had Frank Gore and a revolving door in the front office.

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id give a Slight edge to 49ers Oline as prior to this year the jags Oline sucked. 

The Jags current line is superior to those Smith had until later in his career. 

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heres a legitimate Question for ya: What QB would be doing great behind an Average Oline at best(im not buying this Jags oline as top 16) and Loses his Best Pass Catcher(A-rob) besides someone like Brady? 

Bortles is on pace to be sacked the same number of times Dak Prescott did behind last year's Dallas offensive line. It isn't playing just "average", they're overachieving and playing good football. Call a spade a spade or name 16 lines playing better right now.

As for your hypothetical question, I am 100% confident that there are at least 20 other quarterbacks that could be in Bortles' shoes and be outperforming him. 

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Bortles has shown hes turned a slight corner this year with taking a lil better control of the football and is Making better decisions with the football(throw aways vs Taking sacks).  hes always gonna be a guy who takes a risk or 2 but im fine with him taking a few risks if hes gonna play more like the Bortles we had vs the colts then the Bortles vs the titans. 

Go ahead and defend Bortles if you'd like. Like I said, if he becomes a good QB, good for him and good for the Jaguars. I like the Jaguars. That doesn't change the fact that he's currently holding the team back.

And none of that or anything you've posted exhibits how Bortles and Smith are similar players, or how Smith's career turnaround is somehow indicative of Bortles' potential turnaround. 

[pwny]

Why are we having this argument here too? Smith and Bortles are two completely different players, who have two entirely different play styles, who failed through the first few years of their careers for entirely different reasons. They aren’t players that you compare to one another. At all. Ever. 

[DontTazeMeBro]

I don't think they're going to the Super Bowl. But with a defense like this I certainly wouldn't count them out. Even with Bortles

[y*so*blu]

If the 2000 Ravens could go all the way with Trent Dilfer behind center, the Jaguars certainly have a chance with Bortles. I'm not saying they're as good as the 2000 Ravens; they need to be more consistent and stronger against the run, for starters. But if you put any stock in the saying "defense wins championships," you have to admit this team is headed in the right direction.

[TecmoSuperJoe]

1 hour ago, y*so*blu said:

If the 2000 Ravens could go all the way with Trent Dilfer behind center, the Jaguars certainly have a chance with Bortles. I'm not saying they're as good as the 2000 Ravens; they need to be more consistent and stronger against the run, for starters. But if you put any stock in the saying "defense wins championships," you have to admit this team is headed in the right direction.

Maybe if the Jaguars had the 2000 Ravens schedule they'd have a chance. Also, the Jaguars run defense is bad this year. Maybe the worst in the NFL. 

They are headed in the right direction. Good defenses are hard to keep together though. They need to invest their resources in finding/developing a good quarterback. They haven't had one since Brunell.

[Hunter2_1]

9 hours ago, KhanYouDigIt said:

 

 

Coverage sacks 

[MrOaktown_56]

Their schedule is hilariously weak. I think they definitely can make the postseason. But beyond that, I don't have much confidence in them. But hey, compared to the last few years, it's a good start.

[LinderFournette]

4 hours ago, PapaShogun said:

Maybe if the Jaguars had the 2000 Ravens schedule they'd have a chance. Also, the Jaguars run defense is bad this year. Maybe the worst in the NFL. 

They are headed in the right direction. Good defenses are hard to keep together though. They need to invest their resources in finding/developing a good quarterback. They haven't had one since Brunell.

2 words: David Garrard. 

He was a pretty good game manager. Only had 2 bad years. One was his first year as a full-time starter(3.7 int%). The other was his last year(4.1 int%) but that year he had 5 Game winning drives. 

[INbengalfan]

10 hours ago, LinderFournette said:

whats more scary is the jags still get the Texans OLINE and Colts oline again along with Seattles, Browns and the Bengals(im sorry but the entire oline sans Boling is terrible. 

you might be able to make the case for the Cardinals oline being classified as bad as well as the Chargers

No rational Bengal fan would argue with you or feel slighted in the least

[tom cody]

That defense is something special. Got to think Bortles holds them back from making the playoffs though and they fix their QB situation this winter.

[Hunter2_1]

They have no experience in playoff situations. Feel like most successful teams have been through playoff heartbreak and success a few times. They could get there, but I reckon they'd be candidates to lose in the WC/DIV round due to lack of experience. They've got only a few players that have been through it. Campbell is one.

[TecmoSuperJoe]

2 hours ago, LinderFournette said:

2 words: David Garrard. 

He was a pretty good game manager. Only had 2 bad years. One was his first year as a full-time starter(3.7 int%). The other was his last year(4.1 int%) but that year he had 5 Game winning drives. 

Garrard was never a star though or even a consistently top ten QB.

[pwny]

2 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

They have no experience in playoff situations. Feel like most successful teams have been through playoff heartbreak and success a few times. They could get there, but I reckon they'd be candidates to lose in the WC/DIV round due to lack of experience. They've got only a few players that have been through it. Campbell is one.

Ehh. I feel that’s more that the consistently good teams that make the playoffs year in and year out are typically better than those that flux in and out on a year to year basis. I don’t think heartbreak and success in the playoffs means much in a matchup, just who the better team is. And typically if you’re in the playoffs every year, you’re probably usually better than a team that hasn’t been in the playoffs before. Those teams typically also have better depth, the better Quarterback, better coach, etc.

A couple fluky close games going one way or the other can be the difference between a team making the playoffs that isn’t actually one of the 6 best teams in the conference. But if you’re consistently in the playoffs, it’s pretty much assured that the fluky luck hasn’t been in your favor all those times, and you’re actually that good.

I say all of this to say that the lack of playoff success won’t impact whether the Jags make a run. It’ll be whether Bortles can manage the game, and if Ramsey, Campbell, Telvin, Bouye, Fournette, etc. are actually good enough to beat high end teams regularly.