Matts4313 Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Rtnldave said: That's the Bills, you mean to tell me if Dallas made that choice and lost the game and we were 4-2 instead of 5-1, you would have been okay with that? We all wouldn't be on here screaming WTF!!! I think not. I would be 100% fine with it if analytics said it was the right call. Hell, I thought it was an acceptable choice last night and I have no clue what the probabilities were. Probably a coin flip either way. Edited October 19, 2021 by Matts4313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rtnldave Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: I would be 100% fine with it if analytics said it was the right call. Hell, I thought it was an acceptable choice last night and I have no clue what the probabilities were. Probably a coin flip either way. Well you're one. You value this idea over winning. That takes character, I admire that Matts, truly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 Just now, Rtnldave said: Well you're one. You value this idea over winning. That takes character, I admire that Matts, truly. I value this idea because I like winning. It gives us the best chance to win the most games consistently. Is it perfect? no. Is it proven to be better than "gut feelings" or "instincts" - -YES! I like things that are better. I dont know why you insist on wanting to do it a way that is proven to lose us more games. Boggles the mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rtnldave Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 6 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: I value this idea because I like winning. It gives us the best chance to win the most games consistently. Is it perfect? no. Is it proven to be better than "gut feelings" or "instincts" - -YES! I like things that are better. I dont know why you insist on wanting to do it a way that is proven to lose us more games. Boggles the mind. Because I have always believed experience and the human mind give you the best chance at success. Not some computer algorithms. Sunday the Patriots loss favored your side of the argument. Last night favors experience and taking the tie and living to play another day. Difference is, when you presented me with proof of your approach, I graciously accepted and "this time." Now this aggressive approach backfires and the team that made this "all or nothing" decision came up with nothing. And you and others got defensive. All I'm saying is if Dallas did what the Bills did last night, and please don't tell me "90 million dollar RB, mobile QB, top 5 O line", because that didn't amount to squat in the RZ against NE, 4th and goal and we couldn't get half a yard, and we lost that game the way they did, people on here would be losing their ish. If I'm wrong, I would happily admit to it. But I need to see it first. Words and ideals mean so much to people until one thing happens....cost! Once you have to pay the piper for your decisions, you begin to second guess yourself. As will everyone associated with this team. At least taking the 3 points, going into OT and playing out the string you can argue, I did everything possible to give us a chance to win. Going for it and turning down a 20 yard FG attempt to go to OT, and not converting? Ugh. Just how many times do you think this can happen before people start saying stuff, We have the best team in the league, why are taking so many unnecessary risks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 3 minutes ago, Rtnldave said: Now this aggressive approach backfires You are missing the argument. The argument I am making has nothing to do with aggressiveness. It has to do with ANALYTICs. I showed you a post earlier that explained ANALYTICS =/= aggressiveness. Analytics can tell you to go conservative just as easy as aggressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rtnldave Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 1 minute ago, Matts4313 said: You are missing the argument. The argument I am making has nothing to do with aggressiveness. It has to do with ANALYTICs. I showed you a post earlier that explained ANALYTICS =/= aggressiveness. Analytics can tell you to go conservative just as easy as aggressive. Fair enough, you did. But Matt's, I have to ask you straight up, if you were the Buffalo coach, you wouldn't have kicked the 3? Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 3 minutes ago, Rtnldave said: Fair enough, you did. But Matt's, I have to ask you straight up, if you were the Buffalo coach, you wouldn't have kicked the 3? Really? I, personally, probably kick it there because I feel like I have the better team and my best shot is give them more time. But I dont view going for it on 4th as a "bad" choice by any means. I think it was perfectly logical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rtnldave Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 Just now, Matts4313 said: I, personally, probably kick it there because I feel like I have the better team and my best shot is give them more time. But I dont view going for it on 4th as a "bad" choice by any means. I think it was perfectly logical. Okay, I can live with that. In the words of the Joker "I think you and I are destined to do this forever." 😆 😆 😆 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextyearfordaboyz Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 Just because something doesn’t work, doesn’t mean it was the wrong decision. I don’t know why so many football fans have trouble grasping this concept, but alas *shrug* 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas_OutLaw7 Posted October 20, 2021 Author Share Posted October 20, 2021 54 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: This is just as nonsensical as the people who criticize MM for everything. MM absolutely has had clock management issues and simply because he is able to answer a question does not make the answer a correct one. What a weird way to qualify this. Further, the coaches across the NFL having clock management issues does not excuse MM - if anything it highlights how odd it is that teams have so many issues. It's like the ref question - just because a lot of refs suck and decide games in a way they should not...does not mean we just simply white-wash the ref issue because it's an epidemic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 10 minutes ago, Texas_OutLaw7 said: This is just as nonsensical as the people who criticize MM for everything. MM absolutely has had clock management issues and simply because he is able to answer a question does not make the answer a correct one. What a weird way to qualify this. Further, the coaches across the NFL having clock management issues does not excuse MM - if anything it highlights how odd it is that teams have so many issues. It's like the ref question - just because a lot of refs suck and decide games in a way they should not...does not mean we just simply white-wash the ref issue because it's an epidemic. Exact opposite response. What showing the flaws of other coaches does is it gives perspective. If 100% of teams screw up on clock/game management, but McCarthy is screwing up less - - than it shows that we are making a mountain of a mole hill. Just like our fans are doing with Connor Williams. Bashing a guy who is pretty good because he isnt the best. The issue isnt with Williams, its with the perspective that the media and fans cultivate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas_OutLaw7 Posted October 20, 2021 Author Share Posted October 20, 2021 1 minute ago, Matts4313 said: Exact opposite response. What showing the flaws of other coaches does is it gives perspective. If 100% of teams screw up on clock/game management, but McCarthy is screwing up less - - than it shows that we are making a mountain of a mole hill. Just like our fans are doing with Connor Williams. Bashing a guy who is pretty good because he isnt the best. The issue isnt with Williams, its with the perspective that the media and fans cultivate. No...I am not convinced - nor was any data presented - that MM is screwing up less than others. Nor am I suggesting he is screwing up more, mind you. Bill is a HOFer who has gone really conservative this year and has had mental errors. He's argument was that of someone in the honeymoon phase, which is cool you are happy. Everyone should be happy. Our team is much better and much better coached. We just don't need to dismiss areas of improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 1 minute ago, Texas_OutLaw7 said: No...I am not convinced - nor was any data presented - that MM is screwing up less than others. Nor am I suggesting he is screwing up more, mind you. Bill is a HOFer who has gone really conservative this year and has had mental errors. He's argument was that of someone in the honeymoon phase, which is cool you are happy. Everyone should be happy. Our team is much better and much better coached. We just don't need to dismiss areas of improvement. I dont think there is any resource that grades time outs, but there is this evidence for 'game management': 8 minutes ago, D82 said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas_OutLaw7 Posted October 20, 2021 Author Share Posted October 20, 2021 What is happening right now? We are absolutely more likely to go for it on 4th down. That doesn't mean we excuse the clock management issues. I am THRILLED MM is embracing analytics. It makes his job so much more effective. I bet you each of the coaches here is learning a ton as they continue to progress in their coaching careers and see the value of analytics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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