Trevor Lawrence is looking like a bad pick for the Jags

[Apparition]

Just now, NYRaider said:

Oh yeah you are correct, hopefully they get Kansas City to start. 

What about the Saints, Cowboys, and Colts games? 

Mac's wins have come against the Jets (2x), Texans, Chargers (good win), Panthers, Browns (no one playing), Falcons, Titans (no one playing), Bills (3 passes), and Jaguars. 

What about them? He played well against the Cowboys and would have had a chance to win coming back from a 20-0 deficit against the Colts if the defense hadn't given up the long TD run to Taylor (that 4th quarter was the best he's played all year). The Browns and Titans were both healthy on defense in those games. 

Also bears mentioning that the Saints (when healthy) and Bills have two of the best defenses in the league and much better, more experienced QBs have struggled against them, too. 

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, Apparition said:

What about them? He played well against the Cowboys and would have had a chance to win coming back from a 20-0 deficit against the Colts if the defense hadn't given up the long TD run to Taylor (that 4th quarter was the best he's played all year). The Browns and Titans were both healthy on defense in those games. 

Also bears mentioning that the Saints (when healthy) and Bills have two of the best defenses in the league and much better, more experienced QBs have struggled against them, too. 

The Patriots are 2-4 when Mac has 250+ passing yards and 8-2 when he doesn't. 

[Apparition]

1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

The Patriots are 2-4 when Mac has 250+ passing yards and 8-2 when he doesn't. 

Lost one of those games on a late RB fumble and another on a missed FG. Wow, it's almost like you can cherry-pick stats to build any narrative you want. 

[biggie.]

16 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

The Patriots are 2-4 when Mac has 250+ passing yards and 8-2 when he doesn't. 

And we're undefeated when I'm drinking Sam Adams while rapping Row Row Your Boat in Spanish with a Scottish accent.

[NYRaider]

3 minutes ago, biggie. said:

And we're undefeated when I'm drinking Sam Adams while rapping Row Row Your Boat in Spanish with a Scottish accent.

Amazing. Just gotta hope that Damien and Stevenson come to play in the playoffs cause if it's on Mac's shoulders, oof.

[ThatJerkDave]

5 minutes ago, biggie. said:

And we're undefeated when I'm drinking Sam Adams while rapping Row Row Your Boat in Spanish with a Scottish accent.

Don't act like a hot shot, you only did that for the Falcons game.  

[Dr A W Niloc]

9 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Mac will be good and is a good fit in New England but I just don't think that he has a ton of upside.

     Very few NFL QBs peak in their rookie year.

     Two things have surprised this observer:  that New England's Yards After Catch numbers have failed to soar--they've actually gone down slightly--while the Average Depth of Target has risen from 28th to 12th. 

     What will you think of Mac's upside when he has WRs of similar type--not class, mind you, but type-- as he had in college (which he likely will in 2022)?

     As for the flip side of the coin, Trevor Lawrence, what does it matter whether the problem is the QB or his environment if the latter is so unlikely to change under GM Trent Baalke?

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, Dr A W Niloc said:

     Very few NFL QBs peak in their rookie year.

     Two things have surprised this observer:  that New England's Yards After Catch numbers have failed to soar--they've actually gone down slightly--while the Average Depth of Target has risen from 28th to 12th. 

     What will you think of Mac's upside when he has WRs of similar type--not class, mind you, but type-- as he had in college (which he likely will in 2022)?

     As for the flip side of the coin, Trevor Lawrence, what does it matter whether the problem is the QB or his environment if the latter is so unlikely to change under GM Trent Baalke?

Mac just lacks elite physical tools so I don't think he has a lot more room to grow in comparison to guys like Fields or Lawrence. 

The WR's he thrived with at Alabama were all smaller, shiftier guys like Smith, Ruggs, Waddle, and Jeudy. The Patriots WR's are all guys that fit a similar mold with Bourne, Agholor, and Meyers. I mean Agholor played for the Raiders last season and outplayed Ruggs.

I think a lot will just depend on who the Jaguars hire to be their coach. If they get a bright young offensive mind I don't see any reason that Trevor Lawrence can't be successful.

[Apparition]

3 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Mac just lacks elite physical tools so I don't think he has a lot more room to grow in comparison to guys like Fields or Lawrence. 

Elite physical tools don't guarantee growth, and their absence does not imply lack of growth. 

[NYRaider]

3 minutes ago, Apparition said:

Elite physical tools don't guarantee growth, and their absence does not imply lack of growth. 

They don't guarantee growth but it's easier to see why guys like Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes have grown into the players that they have due to their elite physical tools. Mac isn't mobile and he has average arm talent.

[Apparition]

19 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

They don't guarantee growth but it's easier to see why guys like Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes have grown into the players that they have due to their elite physical tools. Mac isn't mobile and he has average arm talent.

Josh Allen still runs very hot & cold and Mahomes has looked mortal this year because teams have taken away a good amount of his big play ability. Three of the 4 best QBs of the most recent era of football are Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Drew Brees, none of whom had elite physical tools. They accomplished what they did because they were mentally capable of remaining two steps ahead of opponents. That's something Mac Jones is capable of if he commits himself enough. 

[NYRaider]

2 minutes ago, Apparition said:

Josh Allen still runs very hot & cold and Mahomes has looked mortal this year because teams have taken away a good amount of his big play ability. Three of the 4 best QBs of the most recent era of football are Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Drew Brees, none of whom had elite physical tools. They accomplished what they did because they were mentally capable of remaining two steps ahead of opponents. That's something Mac Jones is capable of if he commits himself enough. 

Peyton Manning didn't have elite physical tools?

[Apparition]

1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

Peyton Manning didn't have elite physical tools?

No. His arm was above average in his prime, but not by much. He never had a cannon on he level of Allen/Mahomes, and he couldn't throw a tight spiral consistently. His best statistical season came with diminished arm strength. 

Edited January 6, 2022 by Apparition

[Thelonebillsfan]

How the **** is this thread still going.

[Dr A W Niloc]

29 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Mac just lacks elite physical tools

      Mac Jones is not the first Patriot QB who wasn't a mesomorph.  FWIW, his lack of "elite physical tools" didn't prevent him from dominating in college.

Quote

The WR's he thrived with at Alabama were all smaller, shiftier guys like Smith, Ruggs, Waddle, and Jeudy. The Patriots WR's are all guys that fit a similar mold with Bourne, Agholor, and Meyers. I mean Agholor played for the Raiders last season and outplayed Ruggs.

      We agree that New England has the wrong kind of WRs for a seam-ripper QB.  Even Bill Belichick can only fix so much in one year.

Quote

I think a lot will just depend on who the Jaguars hire to be their coach. If they get a bright young offensive mind I don't see any reason that Trevor Lawrence can't be successful.

      A good coach would help but a GM of Baalke's ilk will always be a bottleneck, starting with the selection of said coach.

Quote

Mac isn't mobile...

      He's not much of a threat to run but he has been evasive in the pocket.  In college his pressure-sack percentage was 12.3%, second only to Kellen Mond (8.6%) in the 2021 QB draft class.