Forge Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 49IRS....already said...none of you guys can "Inb4" it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 lol I remember when people thought he was the same caliber as Kelce. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 11 minutes ago, Danger said: lol I remember when people thought he was the same caliber as Kelce. I mean....he is? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted October 9, 2021 Author Share Posted October 9, 2021 13 minutes ago, Danger said: lol I remember when people thought he was the same caliber as Kelce. His body is breaking down faster than I thought. When we signed his extension, i said it would be his only big money because his body couldn't take it. I assumed that we would get a few more years out of him before it really started to take it's toll on him, but doesn't appear to be the case. Not sure the injuries themselves preclude him from having been the same caliber as Kelce in a vacuum though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 20 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: I mean....he is? George Kittle Receiving & Rushing Statistics for Career Games 2018 to 2021 Games Receiving Rushing Total Yds Year Tm G GS Tgt Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G Ctch% Y/Tgt Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Touch Y/Tch YScm RRTD Fmb Average 10.5 10.5 83.5 60 822.7 3 2.3 14.5 0 62.3 837.2 3 0.5 Per 16 Games 16 16 127 91 1254 5 3 22 0 95 1276 5 1 2018-2021 SFO 42 42 334 240 3291 13.7 12 85 5.7 78.4 71.9% 9.9 9 58 0 18 6.4 1.4 0.2 249 13.4 3349 12 2 Travis Kelce Receiving & Rushing Statistics for Career Games 2018 to 2021 Games Receiving Rushing Total Yds Year Tm G GS Tgt Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G Ctch% Y/Tgt Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Touch Y/Tch YScm RRTD Fmb Average 12.8 12.8 115.8 82.3 1073.2 7.3 0.3 1 0.3 82.5 1074.2 7.5 1 Per 16 Games 16 16 145 103 1347 9 0 1 0 104 1348 9 1 2018-2021 KAN 51 51 463 329 4293 13.0 29 47 6.5 84.2 71.1% 9.3 1 4 1 4 4.0 0.1 0.0 330 13.0 4297 30 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 33 minutes ago, Danger said: George Kittle Receiving & Rushing Statistics for Career Games 2018 to 2021 Games Receiving Rushing Total Yds Year Tm G GS Tgt Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G Ctch% Y/Tgt Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Touch Y/Tch YScm RRTD Fmb Average 10.5 10.5 83.5 60 822.7 3 2.3 14.5 0 62.3 837.2 3 0.5 Per 16 Games 16 16 127 91 1254 5 3 22 0 95 1276 5 1 2018-2021 SFO 42 42 334 240 3291 13.7 12 85 5.7 78.4 71.9% 9.9 9 58 0 18 6.4 1.4 0.2 249 13.4 3349 12 2 Travis Kelce Receiving & Rushing Statistics for Career Games 2018 to 2021 Games Receiving Rushing Total Yds Year Tm G GS Tgt Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G Ctch% Y/Tgt Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Touch Y/Tch YScm RRTD Fmb Average 12.8 12.8 115.8 82.3 1073.2 7.3 0.3 1 0.3 82.5 1074.2 7.5 1 Per 16 Games 16 16 145 103 1347 9 0 1 0 104 1348 9 1 2018-2021 KAN 51 51 463 329 4293 13.0 29 47 6.5 84.2 71.1% 9.3 1 4 1 4 4.0 0.1 0.0 330 13.0 4297 30 4 Kelce plays with Mahomes. Kittle has played with Garoppolo and 49ers backups. This is a silly take. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuskieTitan Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Danger said: lol I remember when people thought he was the same caliber as Kelce. George Kittle is overrated because he will get injured. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted October 9, 2021 Author Share Posted October 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Danger said: George Kittle Receiving & Rushing Statistics for Career Games 2018 to 2021 Games Receiving Rushing Total Yds Year Tm G GS Tgt Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G Ctch% Y/Tgt Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Touch Y/Tch YScm RRTD Fmb Average 10.5 10.5 83.5 60 822.7 3 2.3 14.5 0 62.3 837.2 3 0.5 Per 16 Games 16 16 127 91 1254 5 3 22 0 95 1276 5 1 2018-2021 SFO 42 42 334 240 3291 13.7 12 85 5.7 78.4 71.9% 9.9 9 58 0 18 6.4 1.4 0.2 249 13.4 3349 12 2 Travis Kelce Receiving & Rushing Statistics for Career Games 2018 to 2021 Games Receiving Rushing Total Yds Year Tm G GS Tgt Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G Ctch% Y/Tgt Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Touch Y/Tch YScm RRTD Fmb Average 12.8 12.8 115.8 82.3 1073.2 7.3 0.3 1 0.3 82.5 1074.2 7.5 1 Per 16 Games 16 16 145 103 1347 9 0 1 0 104 1348 9 1 2018-2021 KAN 51 51 463 329 4293 13.0 29 47 6.5 84.2 71.1% 9.3 1 4 1 4 4.0 0.1 0.0 330 13.0 4297 30 4 Honestly, don't think that helps you out as much as you think it does. Their 16 game averages aren't all that far off except for touchdowns (Kittle is the Julio Jones of tight ends for whatever reason, though could just be as simple as the quarterback situation). The yardage is easily accounted for in just the usage and difference in offensive philosophy. Over the course of that time, the Chiefs pass it nearly 62% of the time, the niners about 55% of the time. The number of plays each team has run has been fairly similar each year (2021 being the only exception where they varied by more than one play I think), which results in about 4 more passing plays per game for the Chiefs during that run. That results in about 1 more target per game for Kelce given their average target shares. Then you account for the actual usage difference in players; Kittle has often been used as a 6th offensive lineman (some of the key moments from the 2019 super bowl run, for example, saw Kittle blocking because they needed him there. The overthrow to Manny in the super bowl? kittle was in pass protection that play. The back to back 4th and 15s against the Rams that the 49ers needed? Kittle was blocking on both of those, I believe). This results in a vast difference in pass game utilization in terms of reception numbers. Kelce ran on average 3 more routes per game in 2018 (28 to 25), 11 more routes run per game in 2019 (31 to 20), 9 more in 2020, and 4.5 more in 2021 year to date routes. That's a total of nearly 300 more routes that Kelce has run just in the overlapping games (42 games played by Kittle). Kittle was number 1 in yards per route run every from from 2018 - 2020 for tight ends. His average was a little over 3 yards per route run (3.15) from 2018 - 2021. That means he could have easily put up nearly the same amount of yards as Kelce in about 9 fewer games. Kelce still would have an overwhelming lead in touchdowns, no denying that, but to say that they were substantially off in terms of caliber of player seems to be a stretch. Most of their numbers are pretty comparable on an efficiency basis, but you have to take Kelce based on the stability, consistency, touchdowns, etc. Kittle has a much higher run after the catch, but this is buoyed by shorter average depth of target, so you can largely throw that out. Kittle's drop rate is a little better at 3.6% over that time period compared to 4.1, but this is negligible and I'd honestly give that a slight nod to the variance in average depth of target again. Kelce is probably underrated as a blocker, but he's still probably not Kittle. I think that Kelce pretty much slammed the door on the debate last year with his performance which was pretty amazing, but for the two years before that I'd argue that this was very much a conversation and that they were 100% similar caliber players. At this point though, I think Kittle is actually breaking down and Kelce is not slowing down, so I Don't think it's much of a conversation any more. Honestly, I think that there's a chance that we dont' view Kittle as a top 5 guy by the end of next season. TJ Hockenson is kind of the new Kittle to some extent, Kelce is still there, I expect Pitts to make a huge jump next season, Waller is still an elite receiving option, and then you have guys like Gronk who can still play, and Goedert who will some day get a chance to show his talent. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChazStandard Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Danger said: George Kittle Receiving & Rushing Statistics for Career Games 2018 to 2021 Games Receiving Rushing Total Yds Year Tm G GS Tgt Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G Ctch% Y/Tgt Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Touch Y/Tch YScm RRTD Fmb Average 10.5 10.5 83.5 60 822.7 3 2.3 14.5 0 62.3 837.2 3 0.5 Per 16 Games 16 16 127 91 1254 5 3 22 0 95 1276 5 1 2018-2021 SFO 42 42 334 240 3291 13.7 12 85 5.7 78.4 71.9% 9.9 9 58 0 18 6.4 1.4 0.2 249 13.4 3349 12 2 Travis Kelce Receiving & Rushing Statistics for Career Games 2018 to 2021 Games Receiving Rushing Total Yds Year Tm G GS Tgt Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G Ctch% Y/Tgt Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Touch Y/Tch YScm RRTD Fmb Average 12.8 12.8 115.8 82.3 1073.2 7.3 0.3 1 0.3 82.5 1074.2 7.5 1 Per 16 Games 16 16 145 103 1347 9 0 1 0 104 1348 9 1 2018-2021 KAN 51 51 463 329 4293 13.0 29 47 6.5 84.2 71.1% 9.3 1 4 1 4 4.0 0.1 0.0 330 13.0 4297 30 4 Almost identical catch rates, yards per touch, yards per catch and yards per target. The difference in production is because Kelce plays in a pass heavy system, and Kittle gets doesn’t get as many RZ chances because of the 49ers run game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 (edited) The logic in this thread is making my head hurt. It's kind of like saying Rob Gronknowski's injury history knocks him down a peg compared to some other tight ends that have been able to stay more healthy in their careers. So was Antonio Gates was better than Rob? Was Ozzie Newsome clearly better than Kellen Winslow then too? Edited October 9, 2021 by TecmoSuperJoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 Not to mention Kittle is far and away the best blocking TE in the NFL. Kelce is amazing and plays in the perfect system to maximize his talent, but Kittle is every bit on the same level as Kelce is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefer Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 4 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Not to mention Kittle is far and away the best blocking TE in the NFL. Kelce is amazing and plays in the perfect system to maximize his talent, but Kittle is every bit on the same level as Kelce is. Hes Not as a receiver and i highly respect Kittles receiving ability. Certainly not in availability(knock on wood), and Kelce knows the body cant handle intense blocking so he made a business decision. Not a coincidence that the two elite all-around TEs of this era are injury prone. Its not like he cant block, hes pretty good at it. In college and his early years he would regularly lay people out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted October 10, 2021 Author Share Posted October 10, 2021 33 minutes ago, Chiefer said: Hes Not as a receiver and i highly respect Kittles receiving ability. Certainly not in availability(knock on wood), and Kelce knows the body cant handle intense blocking so he made a business decision. Not a coincidence that the two elite all-around TEs of this era are injury prone. Its not like he cant block, hes pretty good at it. In college and his early years he would regularly lay people out. As if it wasn't bad enough, the damn QB keeps adding to kittle's issues. I mean, his play style is hard enough on him. Then you've got this nonsense that maybe isn't helping 😂. Hospital balls to your best player on offense not ideal lol Last year (missed the next two games) And this was last week (to be clear, kittle was hobbled before, but this could have been a season ender and probably should have been) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefer Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Forge said: As if it wasn't bad enough, the damn QB keeps adding to kittle's issues. I mean, his play style is hard enough on him. Then you've got this nonsense that maybe isn't helping 😂 Last year (missed the next two games) And this was last week Jimmy G is such a turd im sorry man😂 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 20 minutes ago, Forge said: As if it wasn't bad enough, the damn QB keeps adding to kittle's issues. I mean, his play style is hard enough on him. Then you've got this nonsense that maybe isn't helping 😂. Hospital balls to your best player on offense not ideal lol Last year (missed the next two games) And this was last week (to be clear, kittle was hobbled before, but this could have been a season ender and probably should have been) Look at the good news. It won't get better when he's targeted by Lance from what we've seen. More hospital balls on the way!!! Poor Kittle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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