Last of Us 2 - POTENTIAL SPOILERS. Poster Beware

[Jakuvious]

4 hours ago, JBURGE said:

People are welcome to review a game after watching a stream, but they shouldn't. I'm sure I would have been more upset if I watched rather than played. 

I would agree with you there. Maybe or maybe not on being more upset, but a review should definitely be about the whole game. Like, even disliking the story, personally, I wouldn't give it a 1/10 or anything, because the game is still freaking beautiful, and the gameplay is, at worst, functional. To me it was like a 10/10 graphically/technically, a 7/10 gameplay (gameplay is okay, but nothing remarkable, to me), and like a 3/10 for story and/or character development. So I was disappointed but would still probably give the whole thing like a 7. But, internet haters going to do what they do. And they're just rating what they're unhappy about and that's it, instead of the whole thing.

I dunno. User reviews are stupid from a score perspective anyways, honestly. Big fans will always go 10/10, haters will always go 1/10, if for no other reason than to just try to offset each other. Where it falls in between winds up being just pointless half the time. You can never weed out the people biased either way.

[Apparition]

I think the dissonance between what the game presents itself as and what it actually is is what's causing the backlash. People's expectations were simply not met. 

[Ty21]

On 6/23/2020 at 5:10 PM, Nex_Gen said:

The DLC story they added for Elie already left a bad taste in my mouth.

Sounds like someone has a lot of pent up internal homoerotic tension and doesn’t want to admit it

[Ty21]

My thoughts:

-excellent game

-played very similar to uncharted 4

-I would’ve absolutely wanted the head of Abby but after playing as her and getting her story I wanted her and Ellie to just go their separate ways

-Abby was hilariously buff which made a cool dynamic in play styles. Abby was a good run and gunner and Ellie was for stealth. It was tough as Abby not having ellie’s Infinite knife 

-I couldn’t care less that Ellie is gay. People that are getting butthurt about it are annoying. They weren’t in your face about it either, there weren’t any “press triangle to scissor or finger bang” parts or anything. The lesbian scene of Dina and Ellie was a little conflicting for me though. On one hand, it was a little egregious and in the other hand was my pp. sorry I just needed to make that joke. Actually it was kinda neat playing as a lesbian character for the first time. 

-Carrying on the story of the first one to show that Joel did something absolutely monstrous and people viewed him as a devil was amazing. 

-the combat wasn’t bad, an improvement over the first one. The hand to hand with dodging made it super easy if there wasn’t anyone else around. 

-I posted in here a knock on these kinds of games about the bunches of npcs you encounter and kill being clones of each other with no name but didn’t expect that to be addressed at all but it was actually refreshing when you’d take one out and someone else in their party would yell “nooooooo Tina!!!!”

-Joel and Ellies rickety relationship was compelling after they left the hospital. Ellie still had tons of respect and love for him despite his actions but his actions caused a lot of resentment of him and her own self. I was kinda bummed when I thought the first time you go to the farm was the end of the Game and I didn’t see any pictures of Joel around the house. Think that was because she had ptsd about his execution and didn’t want to think about it so it wouldn’t trigger an attack. 

-they were almost game of thrones-ey with character deaths, or at least that was my thought when I thought tommy was killed (I could’ve sworn Abby shot him in the head when he was on the ground). Abby losing all of her friends and then finding a new friend in a former scar shows the climate of the world in that loss is felt but expected and you need to constantly adapt to survive. 

-**** that infected thing in the hospital basement/garage 

-I think my only dislike of the Game was being unable to backtrack if you accidentally go the right way. I wanted to see and find everything 

-I don’t hunt trophies anymore cause platinuming it makes me never want to return to it but it looks like this one is a super easy one to get. No difficult challenges like “headshot 67 infected in 4 seconds”

-I have all the respect in the world for Naughty Dog and every game I’ve ever played by them. I don’t really care about them mistreating their employees. If it’s too bad, leave. If you can handle the perfectionist atmosphere, good. It’s the Michael Jordan approach. Whiny millennials. Leaks hurt the developer but also hurt the fans that don’t want to have a game they’ve been waiting 7 years for spoiled by some whiny dude that couldn’t cut it. 

[sunnygsm]

Finished the game a few days ago after avoiding leaks like the plague. Adored the first game and played it multiple times with an audience. 

*SPOILERS AHEAD*

I don't love TLOU2 in the way I loved TLOU, but it may still be a masterpiece. I second what others have said. It's definitely a game that you have to experience as the player and not via stream (unlike the first game). 

The graphics, voice acting and technical elements are all fantastic. 10/10 in that regard. The gameplay has improved, albeit from a rather mediocre template from the first game. There's more variety to level design, added stealth elements and more varied enemy engagements. The game keeps mixing it up (after the introductory portion) and it keeps it interesting. That said, TLOUs gunplay still feels a bit dated. It's passable like the first. 

The story was an endeavour. First off, it's far more ambitious in its narrative structure than the first game. Do the nail the execution? No, as such it doesn't quite reach the heights of its refined predecessor. The game is long and portions of it really drag because of lengthy, somewhat uninteresting gameplay sections (e.g. seattle day one from both perspectives). That said, I was surprised at how effective some elements were. 

As soon as Abby's character appeared and mentioned they were looking for someone, I knew Joel was a goner. I resented the game for making me play as Abby and forcing me into that scenario. The death itself was understandable. Joel was no saint, we knew that. I loved some of the flashbacks. The space shuttle sequence was vintage TLOU and one of the best moments in the game. Abby's section was a slog. I understood what the developers were doing but I hated it anyway. I thought some of the obvious parallels were a bit too heavy handed by ND for my taste, they lacked the subtlety I'm familiar with. I enjoy that they showed Abby as equally problematic and not some saint. I admit that by the end of her section, I didn't love her, but I did understand her. I liked Lev and her story. All the conflict between the scars and WLF felt a bit shallow, the final battle was fantastic. 

One aspect that I found interesting was that Ellie is basically the embodiment of the player. She murders everyone in her path, doing what most player's want. Even after her happy ending she, and the player, are not content. We trudge across the continent, encounter another violent group and finally meet scrawny Abby. At this point in the game, the lust for revenge had worn off (for me). I was worn out and somewhat apathetic. The final fight is more an act of compulsion rather than desire. At the end of the game, Ellie has lost everything because she followed a path we willed her along (not literally, I know the story was set). Does that make us responsible for making Ellie a shell of herself? 

I could go on, but there's too much. I'm looking forward to playing the game without the tension of uncertainty. 

P.S

Abby was cartoonishly massive. It was distracting and just silly. She can be shredded and still realistic. 

[Ty21]

I don’t recall encountering a single trip mine after that one part where there was like a hundred 

[JBURGE]

48 minutes ago, Tyty said:

I don’t recall encountering a single trip mine after that one part where there was like a hundred 

That is.... a very good point lol

[The_Romen]

On 7/1/2020 at 3:35 PM, sunnygsm said:

I liked Lev and her story.

His*

[The_Romen]

11 hours ago, Tyty said:

I don’t recall encountering a single trip mine after that one part where there was like a hundred 

I thought about that too and was saddened because it would've made it even tougher.

I'll start by saying I was very neutral on the first game. It had a great atmosphere and solid gameplay, but I absolutely hated the story.

This game wasn't a must play for me, but after my sister said she was terrified and thrilled by it, I decided to buy. I don't regret it at all. I think the graphics/mocap/gameplay are 10/10. The story is about a 6-7, but I really dislike the fact that they included Ellie's story in the beginning, had you ride it out to the face off and then back track. I think if they started with Abby and kept Joel and Ellie a piece of the story, it would've added a lot more suspense and tension. Would've been more original and left a better taste in my mouth. Also didn't really like that they just killed everyone off, hate when shows do that.

Absolutely loved the beginning and basically 85% of the game. Didn't love the ending, but not sure of where else it could really go. I left it understanding both parties, but not sure if I agree with the motivations.

I'm not a Naughty Dog fan generally (hate the Uncharted series) but went into this with lower expectations than most and loved it. One of the few games I'll play through again.

9/10

Edited July 3, 2020 by The_Romen

[thebestever6]

Game is awesome up to the part where you and Jesse see Mariah it's rare a game encapsulate me to the point where I'm playing for 5 hrs straight but naughty dog does it!

[Broncofan]

On 7/1/2020 at 4:35 PM, sunnygsm said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

7

On 7/1/2020 at 4:35 PM, sunnygsm said:

 

I don't love TLOU2 in the way I loved TLOU, but it may still be a masterpiece. I second what others have said. It's definitely a game that you have to experience as the player and not via stream (unlike the first game). 

The graphics, voice acting and technical elements are all fantastic. 10/10 in that regard. The gameplay has improved, albeit from a rather mediocre template from the first game. There's more variety to level design, added stealth elements and more varied enemy engagements. The game keeps mixing it up (after the introductory portion) and it keeps it interesting. That said, TLOUs gunplay still feels a bit dated. It's passable like the first. 

The story was an endeavour. First off, it's far more ambitious in its narrative structure than the first game. Do the nail the execution? No, as such it doesn't quite reach the heights of its refined predecessor. The game is long and portions of it really drag because of lengthy, somewhat uninteresting gameplay sections (e.g. seattle day one from both perspectives). That said, I was surprised at how effective some elements were. 

As soon as Abby's character appeared and mentioned they were looking for someone, I knew Joel was a goner. I resented the game for making me play as Abby and forcing me into that scenario. The death itself was understandable. Joel was no saint, we knew that. I loved some of the flashbacks. The space shuttle sequence was vintage TLOU and one of the best moments in the game.

Abby's section was a slog. 

One aspect that I found interesting was that Ellie is basically the embodiment of the player. She murders everyone in her path, doing what most player's want. Even after her happy ending she, and the player, are not content. We trudge across the continent, encounter another violent group and finally meet scrawny Abby. At this point in the game, the lust for revenge had worn off (for me). I was worn out and somewhat apathetic. The final fight is more an act of compulsion rather than desire. At the end of the game, Ellie has lost everything because she followed a path we willed her along (not literally, I know the story was set). Does that make us responsible for making Ellie a shell of herself? 

 

Just wanted to say that the bolded parts really resonate with my experience.   I think as the furor dies down, the points above will stand out more than the knee-jerk reaction.

I also understand a good segment of the casual gaming population felt ND tricked them into thinking Joel was going to be a big part of the gameplay experience - swapping out him for Jesse in the commercial tag was definitely a huge misdirection.    I'm still OK with that, though.   The bigger issue is that the whole 2nd act was just so wearisome.  I get it was part of the whole "quest for vengeance" messaging....but it certainly created the sombre, hard-to-push-through visceral feeling that was distinctly different than LOU, where you understood everyone's actions were being done out of survival necessity (until the very last act, where the motivations were very identifiable).   It's no coincidence that the part of Abby's story that I found less burdensome was with Lev - probably as it was a chapter focused on survival and getting the kids to safety. 

I did absolutely love the flashbacks.  They added so much depth to the characters - and demonstrated the impact of Joel's actions on Abby in an incredibly meaningful way.   That space shuttle sequence was just classic LOU storytelling.    As was the reveal scene between Joel & Ellie, and their final reconciliation scene.

Now that I've had some time to think on it - it's also pretty clear they're setting up the potential for LOU 3 - whether it be just on Ellie, or they bring back more of LOU 2's cast.   Obviously depends on how they do it, but a trilogy format is definitely being set up here.    I don't think it helps or hurts LOU 2's final review, as the strengths/weaknesses stand alone regardless of whether they decide to with a 3rd game (whereas LOU could have definitely been written to end then and there), but it's just worth noting.

Edited July 3, 2020 by Broncofan

[JBURGE]

49 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Just wanted to say that the bolded parts really resonate with my experience.   I think as the furor dies down, the points above will stand out more than the knee-jerk reaction.

I also understand a good segment of the casual gaming population felt ND tricked them into thinking Joel was going to be a big part of the gameplay experience - swapping out him for Jesse in the commercial tag was definitely a huge misdirection.    I'm still OK with that, though.   The bigger issue is that the whole 2nd act was just so wearisome.  I get it was part of the whole "quest for vengeance" messaging....but it certainly created the sombre, hard-to-push-through visceral feeling that was distinctly different than LOU, where you understood everyone's actions were being done out of survival necessity (until the very last act, where the motivations were very identifiable).   It's no coincidence that the part of Abby's story that I found less burdensome was with Lev - probably as it was a chapter focused on survival and getting the kids to safety. 

I did absolutely love the flashbacks.  They added so much depth to the characters - and demonstrated the impact of Joel's actions on Abby in an incredibly meaningful way.   That space shuttle sequence was just classic LOU storytelling.    As was the reveal scene between Joel & Ellie, and their final reconciliation scene.

Now that I've had some time to think on it - it's also pretty clear they're setting up the potential for LOU 3 - whether it be just on Ellie, or they bring back more of LOU 2's cast.   Obviously depends on how they do it, but a trilogy format is definitely being set up here.    I don't think it helps or hurts LOU 2's final review, as the strengths/weaknesses stand alone regardless of whether they decide to with a 3rd game (whereas LOU could have definitely been written to end then and there), but it's just worth noting.

The issue is people wanted this to be the actual story for TLOU2. 

[Broncofan]

16 minutes ago, JBURGE said:

The issue is people wanted this to be the actual story for TLOU2. 

I get that doing a 2nd quest and more flashbacks and deepening out the Ellie-Joel relationship would have likely gone over incredibly well, and been a massive commercial success - and could have had Joel's exit much later in the game.  I absolutely get that the writers had that option.    It just would have been a pretty derivative sequel, and IMO would have detracted from the greatness of the original.  

I didn't enjoy LOU 2 nearly as much as LOU - that's hardly surprising, given that the origin story done THAT well is going to be almost impossible to replicate.   It's the development of the relationships and characters that creates so much love from fans in a story-driven game.  And that's going to be next to impossible to re-create.   

As I said before, the hard part for LOU 2 is the theme they chose just gets so dark and depressing...for so long.    I loved Joel, so his exit was a crusher...but frankly, in that universe, it's pretty organic and hard to argue against as a viable story turn.  It's more that the commercials ND put out clearly had this as a fake-out - which I get is a huge problem for casual fans, who were probably looking for more of the same.   On that count, I get the anger.  

LOU 2 is not going to be seen as a classic in my eyes - because LOU still earns the honor by a fair margin.   A sequel that fails to surpass the origin story is hardly a black mark - very few sequels do.   But the dislike and outright negative reviews seem too harsh.   And I say that as someone who's likely only going to play it through a 2nd time with my daughter later.

[thebestever6]

On 7/1/2020 at 1:45 AM, Starless said:

I think the dissonance between what the game presents itself as and what it actually is is what's causing the backlash. People's expectations were simply not met. 

My expectations are exceeded so far gameplay and maps are phenomenal I feel like Rambo with Ellie hunting down a group of wolves 

The dream sequences are phenomenal excellent character development in the 7 year hiadus. That bloater was intense.

What this game is going to hit or miss on for me will be how well Abby is developed that first sequence where you ran into Joel felt like the opening of the first game how well can they expand on that?

Only on Seattle day two or the3e but loving it just finished the sequence strings which was great.

[thebestever6]

1 hour ago, Broncofan said:

LOU 2 is not going to be seen as a classic in my eyes - because LOU still earns the honor by a fair margin.   A sequel that fails to surpass the origin story is hardly a black mark - very few sequels do.   But the dislike and outright negative reviews seem too harsh.   And I say that as someone who's likely only going to play it through a 2nd time with my daughter later.

I think they're going to end up both being classics alien and alien two would be my comp so far first one you felt more second had more **** still loved both so far