Forge Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 9 minutes ago, clarkfn2284 said: I dont feel like it was required to run Lance to be successful though. There were enough guys to use to accomplish that feat without having to expose Lance as much as Shanahan was. I have a hard time not allowing a guy to fail and expecting him to develop and learn. There is a fine line there because of the winning aspect, but I feel pretty strongly that you could have won, developed Lance as a passer and only run him 3-5 times a game by design. Kyle is widely considered a great play designer, I'll stop short of saying he is a great play caller because some of what we saw was Roman esque levels of simplicity. That's where you and I differ from Shanny. I mentioned it earlier..I'm not running QB power or counter bashes on random 2nd and 8s. I find that to be weird and unnecessary. I think this stuff is much more impactful on short yardage and goal line situations where you can just build this out through multiple options and misdirection and then you just let Lance break a defense's back with scrambles for 10-15 yards where he can slide or get out of bounds. But it really feels like Shanny had a certain mindset on how he was going to be most successful with Lance as his starting QB and for whatever reason, he felt like this was the way to be most successful while also getting Trey some throws in to develop that part of his game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herodreamer79 Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 (edited) 17 hours ago, Forge said: I really do feel like Kyle didn't trust Lance this year to play. AT least not throwing the ball. It makes no sense. An entire year of development for an offense based around "QB Power" That's all Shanahan could muster in a year? If Lance was, in fact, that bad, why did Shanahan even play him at all? Why not just start Jimmy again? Shanahan doesn't seem like the type to cave to media pressure. The entire lockerroom is goo-goo for jimmy anyway. everyone knows Jimmy can at least pilot a decent playoff run. why throw lance to the wolves? 3 first round picks and now he's damaged goods. if jimmy pilots another deep playoff run -it's going to be the same situation next year. the locker room will never accept lance as long as jimmy is here... and they clearly don't have the intestinal fortitude to release him, this entire process has been exasperating to watch. Edited September 20, 2022 by Herodreamer79 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkfn2284 Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 29 minutes ago, Forge said: That's where you and I differ from Shanny. I mentioned it earlier..I'm not running QB power or counter bashes on random 2nd and 8s. I find that to be weird and unnecessary. I think this stuff is much more impactful on short yardage and goal line situations where you can just build this out through multiple options and misdirection and then you just let Lance break a defense's back with scrambles for 10-15 yards where he can slide or get out of bounds. But it really feels like Shanny had a certain mindset on how he was going to be most successful with Lance as his starting QB and for whatever reason, he felt like this was the way to be most successful while also getting Trey some throws in to develop that part of his game. I would have zero problem with him utilizing those calls in situations where it's beneficial. Goal to go, short yardage etc. It became evident as you stated that this was Shanahan's plan. Run Trey multiple times by design of the gameplan and limit his throws while he learns. I look at the play where Trey got hurt and he was subjected to a huge shot on that play alone. This is hard for me to say because as a Coach I understand the thought process and I tend to give grace to Coaches, but in my opinion, Shanahan was just flat out wrong on this. He continuously chose to play with fire and got burned. I think this is where I part ways with Kyle and his reasoning. The risk/reward and his overall lack of critical thinking in major decision making moments makes me wander away from his philosophy. Kyle has a level of stubbornness and unwillingness to adjust that just really frustrates me and I am at a point with him where it has finally impacted the future of the franchise and I think I'm out of good will towards him. Now I say this and will concede there are mush worse situations and coaches to be at the mercy of, but Im kind of done with the excuses especially when the problems are self inflicted, fixable or even to some degree avoidable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 8 minutes ago, Herodreamer79 said: It makes no sense. An entire year of development for an offense based around "QB Power" That's all Shanahan could muster in a year? If Lance was, in fact, that bad, why did Shanahan even play him at all? Why not just start Jimmy again? Shanahan doesn't seem like the type to cave to media pressure. The entire lockerroom is goo-goo for jimmy anyway. everyone knows Jimmy can at least pilot a decent playoff run. why throw lance to the wolves? 3 first round picks and now he's damaged goods. if jimmy pilots another deep playoff run -it's going to be the same situation next year. the locker room will never accept lance as long as jimmy is here... and they clearly don't have the intestinal fortitude to release him, this entire process has been exasperating to watch. 1. Its not unreasonable for Shanny to have been underwhelmed by the progress Lance made throughout the year. We heard reports of it and chose to write it off. Shanny could have certainly expected Lance to be further along at this point and been disappointed. We all heard reports about camp, and we chose to write it off. At some point we have to concede that maybe what Lance actually showed Shanny in practice and camp and whatnot facilitated Shanny to craft the game plans and strategies he did. We've been putting the onus on crafting gameplans this way without considering why he may have felt the need to do so. 2. Lance needs the reps. At some point, you just have to play. What does sitting another year do? He's not going to get more accurate in games sitting on the bench. His play speed and trigger speed aren't going to get faster on the bench. This is a QB who needs in game reps and throws possibly more than any first round QB in history (I'd say its more than possibly, even). Shanny was trying to thread a very difficult needle of developing Trey while piloting a team with super bowl aspirations. I think this largely comes down to a potential misevaluation on Lance as a draft prospect, and a misevaluation on the team situation and where Lance was in his development. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkfn2284 Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, Forge said: 1. Its not unreasonable for Shanny to have been underwhelmed by the progress Lance made throughout the year. We heard reports of it and chose to write it off. Shanny could have certainly expected Lance to be further along at this point and been disappointed. We all heard reports about camp, and we chose to write it off. At some point we have to concede that maybe what Lance actually showed Shanny in practice and camp and whatnot facilitated Shanny to craft the game plans and strategies he did. We've been putting the onus on crafting gameplans this way without considering why he may have felt the need to do so. 2. Lance needs the reps. At some point, you just have to play. What does sitting another year do? He's not going to get more accurate in games sitting on the bench. His play speed and trigger speed aren't going to get faster on the bench. This is a QB who needs in game reps and throws possibly more than any first round QB in history (I'd say its more than possibly, even). Shanny was trying to thread a very difficult needle of developing Trey while piloting a team with super bowl aspirations. I think this largely comes down to a potential misevaluation on Lance as a draft prospect, and a misevaluation on the team situation and where Lance was in his development. On the bolded....Even if it was the case and Shanahan wanted to limit the amount of throws for Trey until he felt he was more developed as a passer in the short and intermediate game, how is it justifiable to decide the answer is exposing your QB to more contact in unnecessary situations? Why wasn't the answer to get more touches to Mason, Deebo, Wilson, Juice, Ray Ray, Aiyuk etc. That is where I disconnect on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 27 minutes ago, clarkfn2284 said: On the bolded....Even if it was the case and Shanahan wanted to limit the amount of throws for Trey until he felt he was more developed as a passer in the short and intermediate game, how is it justifiable to decide the answer is exposing your QB to more contact in unnecessary situations? Why wasn't the answer to get more touches to Mason, Deebo, Wilson, Juice, Ray Ray, Aiyuk etc. That is where I disconnect on this. Simple answer is often the best - he felt like running these misdirections to stress defenses presented the best use of the run game, which definitely isn't an unreasonable take. I don't necessarily agree with the frequency - as I said, I see no reason to put my QB in harms way on a second and 8 when I can run a HB Counter just as easily - but it's hard to argue the perceived improvement the run game would have with Lance potentially utilizing his legs on these plays. That was one of the huge narratives about having Lance. Not all of these designed runs for Treys are designed runs for Trey. A lot of them will have built in options where he makes the decision based on what the defense does. You're still potentially putting your QB in harm's way, but maybe its more acceptable if you don't think he's keeping it as much as he is. Not really sure what his thinking it there. I'm not overly apoplectic at what he was doing with Lance. I personally wouldn't have run him as much as Kyle has been, but I understand how he may have gotten to that point and I understand that we are really just talking about a variation of degrees, which is largely just semantical for my preference and what he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 I don't think that this matters unless Jimmy is really bad or the team is pretty much out of the playoffs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
49erurtaza Posted September 20, 2022 Author Share Posted September 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, Forge said: I don't think that this matters unless Jimmy is really bad or the team is pretty much out of the playoffs 4 minutes ago, Forge said: I don't think that this matters unless Jimmy is really bad or the team is pretty much out of the playoffs If they're out of playoff contention I have no problem. Who knows maybe Jimmy gets hurt down the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 9 minutes ago, Forge said: I don't think that this matters unless Jimmy is really bad or the team is pretty much out of the playoffs If it 12 weeks to get healthy and another say 2-3 weeks to get in shape/form, that will mean he will be ready to go by week 15-16. At the very least, he can be the backup for the potential playoff run over Purdy. If Jimmy gets hurt and the team is out of the playoffs, then he can possibly get a few games before season's end and those will still be valuable reps for him. Can end the season on a good note. Will be interesting to see if the team even lets him get back on the field or if they will be extra cautious and hold him out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
49erurtaza Posted September 20, 2022 Author Share Posted September 20, 2022 One thing to note there is a cap on IR return this season. It will be interesting to see what they designate Lance when they place him on IR id assume tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 8 minutes ago, 49erurtaza said: One thing to note there is a cap on IR return this season. It will be interesting to see what they designate Lance when they place him on IR id assume tomorrow. What is the cap number? I can't suspect they don't put him on season ending IR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 LOL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
49erurtaza Posted September 20, 2022 Author Share Posted September 20, 2022 6 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said: What is the cap number? I can't suspect they don't put him on season ending IR. Yeah, I agree I think they will use it. Looks like 8 IR return slots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 Middlekauff firing on 49er fans on twitter since the Eagles game yesterday. Pretty funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 Just now, Forge said: Middlekauff firing on 49er fans on twitter since the Eagles game yesterday. Pretty funny. I mean Middlekauff's boss is Cowherd, who admitted he hates Lance today. Soooooo............. I haven't been following Middlekauff lately, what has he been saying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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