The Ftont office or the coaches?

[Wolfhunt]

On 11/7/2017 at 11:10 PM, Iamcanadian said:

I think our fan base is simply desperate or we would send this jerk out of town after tarring and feathering him. We are the complete laughing stock of the NFL and we will do anything to halt that story. Ironically, he probably pulls a few things on his body in his first practice and has to sit for 3 or 4 games to get into playing shape. We will be extremely lucky if we see him healthy and able to play in 3 or 4 games this season. I remember what Vick looked like after his long layoff, he just wasn't the same player and had definitely lost a step or 2 when he returned.

Sending a guy with his talent out would be crazy.  Think of how that will look to some FA who are looking to come here.  Gordon screwed up but finally got his life back and the Browns stuck with him.  Even if he is only 3/4 of what he was he is by far the best WR we have.  I always thought Vick was garbage to begin with.  He could run and had a big arm but that is where it stopped.  He had a few good seasons but what he did is by far worse than anything Gordon has done....yet people gave him a chance.  They have given people a chance after killing people to play in the NFL.  

 

[hornbybrown]

10 minutes ago, Wolfhunt said:

Sending a guy with his talent out would be crazy.  Think of how that will look to some FA who are looking to come here.  Gordon screwed up but finally got his life back and the Browns stuck with him.  Even if he is only 3/4 of what he was he is by far the best WR we have.  I always thought Vick was garbage to begin with.  He could run and had a big arm but that is where it stopped.  He had a few good seasons but what he did is by far worse than anything Gordon has done....yet people gave him a chance.  They have given people a chance after killing people to play in the NFL.  

 

Yeah some people treat him like he committed far worse crimes than he actually did.

[hornbybrown]

I’m still struggling to decide who is more to blame. The coaches or the front office 

[ditchdigger]

5 minutes ago, hornbybrown said:

I’m still struggling to decide who is more to blame. The coaches or the front office 

Did the front office call a QB sneak from outside the 2 with 15 seconds left in the half with no timeouts? Does the front office call cover 0 blitzes in obvious passing situations?

We have enough talent to win a game. We don't have enough talent to win a playoff game, but there is no reason other than coaching for this team being 0-9 again.

[ditchdigger]

Don't believe me? Here's Glover Quin eviscerating the staff with this quote after today's game:

 

 "The Browns probably got better athletes than...25 out of the 32 teams in the league, probably. They got a lot of 1st-round draft picks. They got talent, they just haven’t won a bunch of games."

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

2 hours ago, ditchdigger said:

Don't believe me? Here's Glover Quin eviscerating the staff with this quote after today's game:

 

 "The Browns probably got better athletes than...25 out of the 32 teams in the league, probably. They got a lot of 1st-round draft picks. They got talent, they just haven’t won a bunch of games."

I don't think many are questioning the talent, just the youth of it. The Jags had a ton of talent in previous seasons too, but they were young.

That's a brutal quote though, no doubt.

[buno67]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I don't think many are questioning the talent, just the youth of it. The Jags had a ton of talent in previous seasons too, but they were young.

That's a brutal quote though, no doubt.

To me that shows what the FO is doing is correct. Its about finding the talent for the coaches. Now its on the coaches to develop that talent and to put that talent in position to make plays.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

30 minutes ago, buno67 said:

To me that shows what the FO is doing is correct. Its about finding the talent for the coaches. Now its on the coaches to develop that talent and to put that talent in position to make plays.

Talent doesn't develop in 8 weeks, especially at qb.

This stuff takes some time.

Generally speaking, very young teams don't win in pro sports.

[H2ThaIzzo]

The coaching staff and the front office are tied to the hip together. 

1.) We aren't going to get a top tier head coaching candidate to come here and report to Sashi and Co. 

2.) We aren't going to get a top tier GM/ President candidate to come here if Hue is being brought back as HC. 

 

We either stay with the guys running things now, which I am fine with. I get pissed off like everyone else, and I've questioned at times why we didn't make moves to acquire some guys (Not trying to trade for Desean Jackson, not offering a big time multi-year deal to Alshon Jeffery, etc.). I've questioned the play calling and decision making a lot. I think that, aside from not winning at all, this was their vision. There's a reason we weren't spending a lot of money. There's a reason we were moving down and not up through the draft. They want to establish a core roster, some solid starters and some role players, then spend the money to build around that. I would expect us to be very aggressive in the 2018 offseason both in free agency and the draft to make this upcoming third year our year to start the process in the right direction. The problem becomes will there be top tier football players that want to come here and play for Sashi and co? 

 

Here's a small sample of players that will be free agents:

Kirk Cousins

Trumaine Johnson

Le'Veon Bell

Alshon Jeffery

*Sammy Watkins

Allen Robinson

Tyler Eifert

Teddy Bridgewater

Jordan Matthews

Davante Adams

Jarvis Landry

 

etc...

 

I'd love Scot McCloughan here as a talent expert. The potential alcoholism is scary, but if it's part of his past and not the future, I'd trust his expertise at evaluating talent. 

 

I'd like Nick Caserio to come run the team, which would likely include McDaniels as HC,  Jerry Schuplinksi as OC/QB Coach, Ray Ventrone as ST coach,  Josh Boyer as defensive coordinator. 

[H2ThaIzzo]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Talent doesn't develop in 8 weeks, especially at qb.

This stuff takes some time.

Generally speaking, very young teams don't win in pro sports.

I can take the QB growing pains when we see improvement as we did from him today. I can't understand why our two biggest playmakers in terms of receiving ability, Duke and Njoku weren't targeted in the vertical passing game more. Kizer had that great opening pass downfield, we have been waiting on that since preseason, and we see it basically once, then no more. Every week we have watched Duke get open downfield, Njoku beat coverage, both to be overthrown and have no play on the ball. Today, Kizer seems like he has command of the offense, and we only target Duke on short routes, and David got that one look in the end zone where he just barely missed getting his left foot down in bounds. Those two guys are part of the future of the Browns offense, they need to be used as weapons. 

 

There's something missing here though. I don't know, maybe it's due to the majority of our coaching staff being 55+ years old. Maybe there isn't a lot of energy at practice. I'm sure they try to teach the game, and from all accounts, most of them seem like guys players like to play for. How much do they motivate though? Times are tough, we are winless, One win in the last 24 games, so things are becoming very psychological now. How do these guys motivate every player to give their all, to not let up on any play, to wake up with the confidence of a 9-0 football team and not an 0-9 football team?  

[ditchdigger]

3 hours ago, H2ThaIzzo said:

The coaching staff and the front office are tied to the hip together. 

1.) We aren't going to get a top tier head coaching candidate to come here and report to Sashi and Co. 

2.) We aren't going to get a top tier GM/ President candidate to come here if Hue is being brought back as HC. 

 

1. In most winning organizations, the HC is hired by the GM.  Hue was hired by Jimmy, even though Sashi was already here.  Hue reports to Jimmy, not Sashi.  They are not tied together in the traditional sense.

There has to be some improvement in the organizational flow once Hue leaves for this to work.  That means Jimmy taking himself out of the day to day operations of the team, which probably won't happen.

2.  That is true.  No GM is going to go forward with a coach that has a .041 winning percentage with the team.

The only way the process can continue to move forward is letting Sashi hire a HC like every other successful organization does.  Let the manager manage, and the coach coach.  And find someone that can evaluate the QB position.

P.S.  McCloughan likes Baker Mayfield over the entire potential draft class of QBs.  I'm inclined to agree.

[brownie man]

8 hours ago, ditchdigger said:

 

1. In most winning organizations, the HC is hired by the GM.  Hue was hired by Jimmy, even though Sashi was already here.  Hue reports to Jimmy, not Sashi.  They are not tied together in the traditional sense.

There has to be some improvement in the organizational flow once Hue leaves for this to work.  That means Jimmy taking himself out of the day to day operations of the team, which probably won't happen.

2.  That is true.  No GM is going to go forward with a coach that has a .041 winning percentage with the team.

The only way the process can continue to move forward is letting Sashi hire a HC like every other successful organization does.  Let the manager manage, and the coach coach.  And find someone that can evaluate the QB position.

P.S.  McCloughan likes Baker Mayfield over the entire potential draft class of QBs.  I'm inclined to agree.

 

But to me the Hue Sashi relationship isn't the problem 

You HAVE TO give these guys this draft class

You can't allow these guys to trade down pass on talent to stockpile picks and not let them use those picks 

You just can't 

[MSURacerDT55]

I'm starting to waver on Hue, I've been holding strong but as a coach myself, Good coaches judge other coaches by what they can do with minimal talent and not the other way around. Meaning, coaches who are loaded with players aren't necessarily the best coaches, but the ones who get the most out of minimal talent are the ones worth their salt. The question to ask is if he is getting the most out of the guys he has, if so, the talent is trash, and if not, its on him.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

5 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

I'm starting to waver on Hue, I've been holding strong but as a coach myself, Good coaches judge other coaches by what they can do with minimal talent and not the other way around. Meaning, coaches who are loaded with players aren't necessarily the best coaches, but the ones who get the most out of minimal talent are the ones worth their salt. The question to ask is if he is getting the most out of the guys he has, if so, the talent is trash, and if not, its on him.

To me it's not a question of talent, Hue has talent to work with, it's youth and inexperience.

Generally speaking youth doesn't win in pro sports.  Kinda hard to hand the guy the youngest roster in the league and expect much IMO.

We need more second contract players, those are the guys you win with.

[MSURacerDT55]

1 minute ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

To me it's not a question of talent, Hue has talent to work with, it's youth and inexperience.

Generally speaking youth doesn't win in pro sports.  Kinda hard to hand the guy the youngest roster in the league and expect much IMO.

We need more second contract players, those are the guys you win with.

I agree, we make some of the dumbest penalties, which can be attributed to youth, but part of me would think how would Tomlin or Belichick would have dealt with these situations?