The Ftont office or the coaches?

[Dogbite]

42 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

We are 9th in yards per game on defense and 26th in points. Obviously our offensive turnovers play a big part in that giving the opposing offense a short field to score. Our pass defense has been pretty bad overall, a lot of touchdowns given up, short field or otherwise that needs corrected. Also we allow a high percentage of passes to be completed that also needs worked on. Our pass defense is on pace to give up 32 TD and collect 10 picks, last year it was 36 and 10 so a slight improvement. We are on pace to give up about 500 fewer passing yards. Last year we gave up 2283 rushing yards, 18 TD at a 4.6 ypc. This year we are on pace to give up 1348 yards at 2.9 per carry with 10 TD. Pretty drastic improvement.

So while the pass defense has only been slightly better the run defense is a heck of a lot better making the overall defense a good bit better.

9th in yards per Game
7th in yards per Play
14th in 3rd Down Conversions

5th in run defense
1st in run YPC

18th in pass defense

27th in Points Per Game

 

I would say the defense has made a huge improvement overall not just in run defense. We haven't even been at full strength.  The offense is clearly holding the team back and hurting the defensive numbers in PPG. We cannot sustain drives when it matter at all.

Also just to throw this nugget out there; The front office that is picking this players for Hue Jackson is the same front office that has lead the charge in the revamped defense which is far more athletic and younger. You never hear Greg Williams complain about the players he was given unlike Hue "throw everyone under the bus to save face" Jackson. Greg Williams hasn't panicked and demanded we trade for anyone. Hasn't thrown any of this players under the bus and he doesn't direct all negative questions back to the front office like Hue Jackson has since day 1.

 

 

[DaWg_LB.]

On 11/3/2017 at 2:47 PM, big poppa pump said:

I humbly disagree.  There is almost never an ideal situation for a QB that gets drafted.  How often is a team a QB away from being successful?  The team that is drafting that high is usually bad for more reasons than just not having a QB.  We have not made a move, when a move was there to be made, the last two drafts.  We had no idea that we would stink this bad in year 3 of a rebuild.  To wait that long, after having sucked, and had a high pick in the previous two drafts is unprecedented.  I don't think it is valid to say that Carson Wentz was walking into an ideal situation with Philly.  Maybe Houston was a QB away from being good when they drafted Watson???  Denver may be a QB away from being good???  Just because we have been awful, doesn't mean we would have ruined a young QB.  It may have happened???  But the opposite could have been true as well.  One of those QB's could just as easily have elevated the play, and started the process of rebuilding this franchise.  Instead....we will have to wait until year 3 of the rebuild....and hope.... that the clowns will grab a franchise QB

 

To your above point....a franchise QB IS worth 5 first rounders (especially the way we draft), although, that would never be the asking price.

I respect your rebuttle, but disagree with a couple of points you made...1. sayings we have not made a move when there was one to be made....first I disagree...the Front Office and the Coaching staff identified Goff as being the QB...but it was Also year 1 aka the Demolition of the team, if they cant get the #1 QB on their board and its either take your #2 QB (a 24 year old DII QB with 14 starts and an Injury history) OR you can trade down and take a kings ransom....IMO they made the smart move....depending on your point of view, it looks less than efficient, but NOBODY thought about Wentz coming into the league and start thowing 4TD's a game....but at the same time, they took the picks and built a team with it (including a top 8 D).....

Secondly.....your said year 3 of the rebuild....we havent even completed year 2 of the rebuild....and IMO, asking me...we are NOW in year ONE of the rebuild....last season was about blowing up the team, getting control of the salary cap, and talent development and Identification.....so I don't know where you get this year 3 of the rebuild from?????....

If you dont think Wentz walked into an IDEAL situation....then I dont know what to tell you....lets see #1 he had an Oline that has an All Pro Center, Jason Peters is the best LT in the game not name Joe Thomas or Tyron Smith AND they have a top 3 pick at RT (Lane Johnson)...so lets see...Oline CHECK....Hmmm a backfield of Darren Sproles (Former All Pro) and Ryan Mathews (former 1rst round pick)...one of the best TE's in the game in Zach Ertz and not a bad one in Brett Celick....and at WR...a HOST of 1rsrt and 2nd round picks...CHECK.....not to mention his cocahes Doug Peterson (Former NFL QB, and coached under Andy Reid for over 10 seasons) his OC Frank Reich (Former NFL QB, with the record for biggest comeback in league history) and his QB coach DeFlipo (Former College QB, QB coach or OC for the past 15 years, and was tabbed as one of the best young Offensive minds in the game.....before he came to Cleveland LOL). So IF you ask me....QB coach one of the top young minds and a former college QB, OC and HC both former NFL QB's that both have coached the QB position for 30+ years together....an Oline with 2 All pro's and top 5 pick on it.....a WR corps with 2 former 1rst rounders and 2 former 2nd rounders...a pro bowl TE and another very good TE...and a former 1rsrt round RB and an All pro 3rd down back......IF that is NOT Ideal.....please describe to me a situation more ideal that's not the Arron Rogers situation (Where you just sit on a good team for 3 years behind a HOF QB) . OR we have VERY different idea's about what's "An Ideal situation for a QB to go into"....

Your acting like wentz was draft by SF and he has the 49ers sitting at 7-1.....

And I disagree with your last point....a Franchise QB (Philip Rivers, Andrew Luck, Kirk Cousins, Mathew Stafford) is NOT worth 5 1rst rounders......a HOF caliber QB in their PRIME (Aron Rogers, a younger Tom Brady) IS....IMO

[big poppa pump]

1 hour ago, DaWg_LB. said:

I respect your rebuttle, but disagree with a couple of points you made...1. sayings we have not made a move when there was one to be made....first I disagree...the Front Office and the Coaching staff identified Goff as being the QB...but it was Also year 1 aka the Demolition of the team, if they cant get the #1 QB on their board and its either take your #2 QB (a 24 year old DII QB with 14 starts and an Injury history) OR you can trade down and take a kings ransom....IMO they made the smart move....depending on your point of view, it looks less than efficient, but NOBODY thought about Wentz coming into the league and start thowing 4TD's a game....but at the same time, they took the picks and built a team with it (including a top 8 D).....

Secondly.....your said year 3 of the rebuild....we havent even completed year 2 of the rebuild....and IMO, asking me...we are NOW in year ONE of the rebuild....last season was about blowing up the team, getting control of the salary cap, and talent development and Identification.....so I don't know where you get this year 3 of the rebuild from?????....

If you dont think Wentz walked into an IDEAL situation....then I dont know what to tell you....lets see #1 he had an Oline that has an All Pro Center, Jason Peters is the best LT in the game not name Joe Thomas or Tyron Smith AND they have a top 3 pick at RT (Lane Johnson)...so lets see...Oline CHECK....Hmmm a backfield of Darren Sproles (Former All Pro) and Ryan Mathews (former 1rst round pick)...one of the best TE's in the game in Zach Ertz and not a bad one in Brett Celick....and at WR...a HOST of 1rsrt and 2nd round picks...CHECK.....not to mention his cocahes Doug Peterson (Former NFL QB, and coached under Andy Reid for over 10 seasons) his OC Frank Reich (Former NFL QB, with the record for biggest comeback in league history) and his QB coach DeFlipo (Former College QB, QB coach or OC for the past 15 years, and was tabbed as one of the best young Offensive minds in the game.....before he came to Cleveland LOL). So IF you ask me....QB coach one of the top young minds and a former college QB, OC and HC both former NFL QB's that both have coached the QB position for 30+ years together....an Oline with 2 All pro's and top 5 pick on it.....a WR corps with 2 former 1rst rounders and 2 former 2nd rounders...a pro bowl TE and another very good TE...and a former 1rsrt round RB and an All pro 3rd down back......IF that is NOT Ideal.....please describe to me a situation more ideal that's not the Arron Rogers situation (Where you just sit on a good team for 3 years behind a HOF QB) . OR we have VERY different idea's about what's "An Ideal situation for a QB to go into"....

Your acting like wentz was draft by SF and he has the 49ers sitting at 7-1.....

And I disagree with your last point....a Franchise QB (Philip Rivers, Andrew Luck, Kirk Cousins, Mathew Stafford) is NOT worth 5 1rst rounders......a HOF caliber QB in their PRIME (Aron Rogers, a younger Tom Brady) IS....IMO

Wow

Well....I guess we will agree to disagree then.  I mean...I almost stopped reading when you made it sound like Darren Sproles and Ryan Matthews at RB was an IDEAL situation. They may have combined for 1000 yards rushing. We have that (and we don't have much) with Crow and Duke.  They also had Dorial Green Beckham, a young, not ready to produce Nelson Algholar, and a good..not great WR in Jordan Matthews.  They had Ertz.  That's nice I guess.

Their O line, as you pointed out is nice.  Wentz was sacked 33 times, and had 14 fumbles.  Probably can put most of that on being a rook, but I'm sure the line had some blame.  Our line hasn't been the worst thing about this team.  I mean...pick a team, and it's a better situation than the Browns.

 

We are in the second year of having this FO.  They neglected to find a QB in the first two years.  I think it's fair criticism since it is the most important position in possibly all of sports.  I doubt they thought they would be this bad, and in position for a THIRD straight year of drafting high.  Maybe I'm wrong, and that's been the plan all along.  Maybe they get the best of the bunch in Darnold, and it will be all worth it.  To say that was the plan, though, is hard to fathom

[Mind Character]

It's official...

The Browns and FO are done working with each other...

They asked Hue "Do you feel good about the relationship with the coaches and FO...?"

He said something like " I'm not going to address that...Sashi talked about it earlier..."

If you can't even say "Things are good, we've had some bumps but we're working hard together going forward" just for the media/public it's really bad.

[brownie man]

6 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

It's official...

The Browns and FO are done working with each other...

They asked Hue "Do you feel good about the relationship with the coaches and FO...?"

He said something like " I'm not going to address that...Sashi talked about it earlier..."

If you can't even say "Things are good, we've had some bumps but we're working hard together going forward" just for the media/public it's really bad.

 

I dont agree there

 

our media is soooooo annoying id be done with talking with them if I was Hue or Sashi they're like idiots idk whos letting them keep their jobs 

[Mind Character]

2 minutes ago, brownie man said:

I dont agree there

 

our media is soooooo annoying id be done with talking with them if I was Hue or Sashi they're like idiots idk whos letting them keep their jobs 

Yeah the media is garbage....

But if you and I are said to have a had serious disagreement.

And you come out and say "We're working together, I'd leave it at that" when asked how our working relationship...

Then, when I'm asked "How's your working relationship with Brownie Man?" And I say "I'm not talking about that...I'm just focusing on my work." "Whatever Brownie Man said earlier is what was said"

To me that's a real sign of a strained relationship...where they can't even keep up the public lies/PR

[NateDawg]

1 hour ago, Mind Character said:

It's official...

The Browns and FO are done working with each other...

They asked Hue "Do you feel good about the relationship with the coaches and FO...?"

He said something like " I'm not going to address that...Sashi talked about it earlier..."

If you can't even say "Things are good, we've had some bumps but we're working hard together going forward" just for the media/public it's really bad.

It’s like he’s sabotaging things and trying to get fired.

I’d be happy to oblige.

[Fatgerman]

27 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

It’s like he’s sabotaging things and trying to get fired.

I’d be happy to oblige.

Dam skippy! Id rather promote Gregg Williams and let him hire an OC than see Hue anymore. I just dont get how people dont see that the FO has done an admiral job of infusing young, highly athletic players into our roster. We were God awful. They tore it completely down! Basically, we are year 1 and a half into building an expansion team. Funny thing is, Sashi probably could have made some short sighted moves to buy some wins, in expence of the future, but they didnt. Theyre trying to do this right. Accumilate picks, draft well, keep the salary cap clean. They havent hit on a qb yet. ok, I get that, but otherwise... I truly think theyve found the formula of production, character, and athleticism to select players. These guys wouldnt have drafted Justin Gilbert. His character sucked. Or Nate Orchard. Hes as athletic as a pine tree. They target young, athletic, productive, good character players. That QB problem...thats a tuffy to crack. Hell, the year New England drafted Brady, they didnt select one other even decent player. Draft was a total wash, but they lucked into a 6th round HOF qb on freakin accident. Always remember that guys. Luck is a huge part of nailing that pick. I read that Derek Carr was Oaklands third choice of QB in that draft, same with Dak Prescott in Dallas.

[ditchdigger]

Have all the electronic footballs for "Nate Orchard ... as athletic as a pine tree."

 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 hour ago, ditchdigger said:

Have all the electronic footballs for "Nate Orchard ... as athletic as a pine tree."

 

I don't know how accurate that is.

I always viewed pines as one of the more athletic trees.  They're no Weeping Willow but hardly a Red Bud.

[DaWg_LB.]

2 hours ago, ditchdigger said:

Have all the electronic footballs for "Nate Orchard ... as athletic as a pine tree."

 

My monies on the pine tree......

And I talked nate Orchard up this offseason.....I feel bad now...LOL

[Iamcanadian]

On 11/4/2017 at 3:58 PM, Dogbite said:

9th in yards per Game
7th in yards per Play
14th in 3rd Down Conversions

5th in run defense
1st in run YPC

18th in pass defense

27th in Points Per Game

 

I would say the defense has made a huge improvement overall not just in run defense. We haven't even been at full strength.  The offense is clearly holding the team back and hurting the defensive numbers in PPG. We cannot sustain drives when it matter at all.

Also just to throw this nugget out there; The front office that is picking this players for Hue Jackson is the same front office that has lead the charge in the revamped defense which is far more athletic and younger. You never hear Greg Williams complain about the players he was given unlike Hue "throw everyone under the bus to save face" Jackson. Greg Williams hasn't panicked and demanded we trade for anyone. Hasn't thrown any of this players under the bus and he doesn't direct all negative questions back to the front office like Hue Jackson has since day 1.

To be fair, we used our first 2 picks on defense and defense does not require a QB, the most important position on a football team, to be effective. The FO also hired Hue and it is extremely unusual for a HC to criticize the FO that hired him, since they can also fire him, if they have any real control over team operations, which I am no longer sure they do??? In actuality, successful HC's do not post 1-31 records ever, they win at least 3 games minimum a season, if they have any solid talent for winning as coaches, so Jackson's future isn't looking too bright IMO.

 

 

[Iamcanadian]

11 hours ago, Fatgerman said:

Dam skippy! Id rather promote Gregg Williams and let him hire an OC than see Hue anymore. I just dont get how people dont see that the FO has done an admiral job of infusing young, highly athletic players into our roster. We were God awful. They tore it completely down! Basically, we are year 1 and a half into building an expansion team. Funny thing is, Sashi probably could have made some short sighted moves to buy some wins, in expence of the future, but they didnt. Theyre trying to do this right. Accumilate picks, draft well, keep the salary cap clean. They havent hit on a qb yet. ok, I get that, but otherwise... I truly think theyve found the formula of production, character, and athleticism to select players. These guys wouldnt have drafted Justin Gilbert. His character sucked. Or Nate Orchard. Hes as athletic as a pine tree. They target young, athletic, productive, good character players. That QB problem...thats a tuffy to crack. Hell, the year New England drafted Brady, they didnt select one other even decent player. Draft was a total wash, but they lucked into a 6th round HOF qb on freakin accident. Always remember that guys. Luck is a huge part of nailing that pick. I read that Derek Carr was Oaklands third choice of QB in that draft, same with Dak Prescott in Dallas.

The problem is, to succeed in pro football, you have to find a franchise QB, end of story and our FO has passed on 2 or more potentially franchise QB's including Wentz who in 2 years is approaching MVP status for the whole NFL. If a FO cannot come up with a franchise QB, in the end, it is a total failure as our record indicates.

If they are so concerned with character over winning, why haven't they cut Gordon,??? I think they are in panic mode and looking for anything that might provide a win and if they draft in panic mode, the draft could turn out to be a disaster.

[Mastercheddaar]

14 hours ago, brownie man said:

I dont agree there

 

our media is soooooo annoying id be done with talking with them if I was Hue or Sashi they're like idiots idk whos letting them keep their jobs 

Our media and the sports media in general like the Browns being that sacrificial team, they can always rip apart. They'll say how great our draft was or how awesome our GM/Coach hiring was. They'll even say, give it 3 years browns fans! Then 1 1/2 into a rebuild, they'll be the first to build up a story that everything sucks and there is a rift between the FO and the HC. It's very bumpy right now and every single monday morning QB/GM/HC knows how to fix the team. Well the truth is, you don't fire anyone for 3 years. Next season if we are 0-9 again THEN you turn on the burner to high.

Mistakes (Britt and the practice squad all stars) were made on both sides (Pass first run later offense...)  But so far with two drafts Sashi has gone a decent job and has us in the position to have a great FA period followed by another great multiple first round pick draft. I'm not going to judge either of them until this draft has concluded. Sashi earned all the cap space and picks. Let's let him do something with them now. (I honestly believe both Hue and Sashi can learn from their mistakes.) 

Love me or hate me for it but I'm right. 

That is all

Mastercheddaar

[Fatgerman]

10 hours ago, DaWg_LB. said:

My monies on the pine tree......

And I talked nate Orchard up this offseason.....I feel bad now...LOL

Dont sweat it. We were all there with the wishful thinking. Guess no one caught the tree/orchard double entendre I did back there, Should probably stick to my strong suit: third grade fart jokes.