The Ftont office or the coaches?

[CBrownsman]

8 minutes ago, Browns1987 said:

I fire whoever wanted to give a 2nd and a 3rd for McCarron, which in this case was Hue Jackson.

Give a raise to whoever sabotaged it.

See this sucks all around.  Because the trade would have been AWFUL.  A crappy band aid for a situation that needs to be properly fixed.

But the fact that they sabotaged it, and Ignored a direct order, is grounds for firing...

I both respect them and hope they don't get fired but this makes me understand why they would....

[brownie man]

Yeah really glad this didn’t go down I would’ve been pissed. Setting behind AJ might’ve helped Kizer 

but I think the playermakers you could get next year with those picks would help him more

glad Jimmy gave Sashi the final say 

keep this thing together man 

once we have another great draft the media will be singing our praises 

[Mastercheddaar]

1 hour ago, CBrownsman said:

BTW this could very well be Sam Hinkie all over again.

I can see it now.  Haslem cleans house, hires a new GM and HC, they draft Darnold (or whatever franchise QB) first overall.  Have 5 more picks in the top 65 and 120 million dollars to add play makers with the O-line, TE's and front 7 in good shape.  We finally start to win a good number of games, and the new regime gets all the credit even though it was set up by Hue getting pooped on and the front offices plan for a long rebuild.

If Hue could only take his licks and not throw a fit that they don't have a QB to win right now, and if only Jimmy could be patient, I think this FO and Coaching Staff would be very successful and around for a VERY long time....

This makes too much sense. Biggest problem is we (Fans, league, media, etc) have no patience for our browns. GMs need to hit 100% of the draft picks and the coach needs win now. We give our team and FO a zero margin for error. No one can succeed with that much pressure on them. 

It's almost like Haslem needs to come out and tell everyone to F off. 2 years ago, everyone... EVERYONE was saying how great Hue Jackson hire was. How interesting Sashi Brown's approach was. They also said, they both need time to apply their systems. Now, (not just impatient browns fans) are saying the exact opposite. "Lulzy browns mess up again!" "Hue on the hot seat?" Cleveland needs to clean house and bring in Peyton Manning!" 

Keep everything the way it is like you said. What's the worst that can happen? We go 0-16? I honestly feel if we fired Hue and promoted williams we would go 0-16. I feel there are no replacement coaches in the off season that could do any better. 

That is all

Mastercheddaar

[matt27j]

More and more I feel the FO was probably forced into this by a Haslam and Hue double team. Inpatient, they finally cracked and asserted their combined power. 

This challenges Kizer's confidence even more knowing Hue has wanted so many QBs over him. At first I thought the benchings and throwing him into the fire were tough love and trying to get him to learn as quick as possible, but maybe it was all just reckless coaching in effort to try to get JG or AJ here. Kizer has improved in certain areas every week. We all know he had some major issues yet the offense has been called at times like he's a veteran QB.  

If Hue simply runs it, focuses on PA in RZ we win vs the Jets and Titans and none of this would've happened. 

I still believe Kizer is the perfect QB for CLE, even if that means he's not the best QB we could have. If we run the ball and play great defense he doesn't have to be as accurate, consistent, or a star for this team to make the playoffs. Once we get there he has the talent to go Flacco, Eli, Cardale and help you go all the way.

That being said, maybe things would be different if Hue got one of the QBs he wanted more. Then again, maybe he is the one who wanted to pass on Wentz and Watson and the FO liked them. All along you know he's wanted JG and AJ. Maybe Hue still gets AJ. My vision of the Browns, and I think the FO's vision of the Browns are different from that of Hue's. 

All paths can succeed, but there is only one path. My feeling is that it will be Hue's path.

 

[DaWg_LB.]

2 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Eh, fumbles deep in the opponents end of the field, an inability to extend drives, injuries to key pieces (Garrett, Shelton, Collins, Peppers, McCourty), YOUTH, and yes, a lack of talent.

Theyve made some strides but this didn't a complete roster yet. Even if they fix WR and QB this offseason, they'll still be adding to the defense as well and they guys we have will be a year older and more experienced.

On TOP of that....a rookie who was ALL WORLD in college, but seems to have a case of the Yips with us....for example, we lost to the Jets by 3 points...Zane G. missed 2 FG's in that game....IF everything went the way it did....AND our rookie kicker just hits 2 VERY makable FG's.....we win that game.

Penalties at crucial times that youngsters make, fumbles (Treggs on the PR and Crow opening series of the 2nd half) and its not JUST the TO's....we get them either in the redzone and take points off the board, or commit them when the opponent is already in scoring position. So see our TO's have been bad...but MOST of our TO's has lead to DIRECT taking off or conceding points....this is one of the reasons why I say, numbers don't lie..but they don't tell the whole truth either...this makes our TO's twice as bad IMO. Another of my favorite examples was at least 3 "Drops" I saw this year (2 I KNOW from Britt)...its not just a "Dropped pass", its tipped to a defender for an INT IN the redzone....

And the last part I would put on coaching....I have been disappointed in Al Saunders...while we don't have world beaters at WR...I figured Saunders would be able to at least craft a decent group of route runners with possession type hands. Secondly is Play Calling......Throwing the ball 49 times on the road vs. a colts team that cant stop the run, and was missing its starting QB....ABANDONING the run as soon as we were 6 points down....that was the worst game of the seasons IMO...and we lost by a FG (Gonzales missed one in that game also)....

Our D as good as it's been has fielded its starting 11 for exactly 2 quaters of 1 game this year.

This is why we are 0-8.....I expected us to be 2-6 or 1-7 at this point in the season...so 0-8 is not that far off.....guess that's why I'm not panicking about wins and losses.

What is causing me some heartburn is what appears to be miscommunication between the coaches and FO.......the Desperation that Hue is showing, one of the reasons I wanted him seemed for his unflappable Nerve....lastly the lack of offensive ingenuity and development of offensive players.

[dawgdish]

4 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Someone other than Berry and Grigson?  

I'm not sure how many top guys want to come to a situation where they don't pick their coach. You end up with a younger personnel guy looking to advance his career on the scouting side, a la Andrew Berry, but not the top shelf GM prospects.

Even if the GM has control of the 53, Sashi and DePodesta will be calling the shots as far as trades and such, probably free agents as well.  That's kinda the point of the moneyball philosophy. 

Not really sure how you integrate a personnel guy who has a role larger than Berry's currently without bailing on the current plan entirely.

 

 

 

Yes - I don't see how the guys who couldn't surround Luck with any talent and made the trade for TRich are the ones we want running personnel. Your assessment of how undesirable the situation would be is spot on - Jimmy & Sachi's fault for setting up such a toothless personnel structure in the first place.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

2 minutes ago, dawgdish said:

Yes - I don't see how the guys who couldn't surround Luck with any talent and made the trade for TRich are the ones we want running personnel. Your assessment of how undesirable the situation would be is spot on - Jimmy & Sachi's fault for setting up such a toothless personnel structure in the first place.

Andrew Berry had a very good reputation when we hired him and, while Grigson wasn't a good GM, he must have done something to get that job originally. 

Again, back to my earlier point that Cleveland fans think everyone is an incompetent fool despite them having a good track record prior to coming here.

You want an experienced front office guy instead of "lawyer Sachi" (sic) but when we hire a former exec of the year he's an idiot too. Kind of a no win situation, iyam.

[Mastercheddaar]

52 minutes ago, DaWg_LB. said:

On TOP of that....a rookie who was ALL WORLD in college, but seems to have a case of the Yips with us....for example, we lost to the Jets by 3 points...Zane G. missed 2 FG's in that game....IF everything went the way it did....AND our rookie kicker just hits 2 VERY makable FG's.....we win that game.

Penalties at crucial times that youngsters make, fumbles (Treggs on the PR and Crow opening series of the 2nd half) and its not JUST the TO's....we get them either in the redzone and take points off the board, or commit them when the opponent is already in scoring position. So see our TO's have been bad...but MOST of our TO's has lead to DIRECT taking off or conceding points....this is one of the reasons why I say, numbers don't lie..but they don't tell the whole truth either...this makes our TO's twice as bad IMO. Another of my favorite examples was at least 3 "Drops" I saw this year (2 I KNOW from Britt)...its not just a "Dropped pass", its tipped to a defender for an INT IN the redzone....

And the last part I would put on coaching....I have been disappointed in Al Saunders...while we don't have world beaters at WR...I figured Saunders would be able to at least craft a decent group of route runners with possession type hands. Secondly is Play Calling......Throwing the ball 49 times on the road vs. a colts team that cant stop the run, and was missing its starting QB....ABANDONING the run as soon as we were 6 points down....that was the worst game of the seasons IMO...and we lost by a FG (Gonzales missed one in that game also)....

Our D as good as it's been has fielded its starting 11 for exactly 2 quaters of 1 game this year.

This is why we are 0-8.....I expected us to be 2-6 or 1-7 at this point in the season...so 0-8 is not that far off.....guess that's why I'm not panicking about wins and losses.

What is causing me some heartburn is what appears to be miscommunication between the coaches and FO.......the Desperation that Hue is showing, one of the reasons I wanted him seemed for his unflappable Nerve....lastly the lack of offensive ingenuity and development of offensive players.

So you are saying it also takes special teams help to be this bad as well? 

That is all

Mastercheddaar

[Aztec Hammer]

They all need to go.

[lancerman]

19 hours ago, ditchdigger said:

Front Office still trying to appease a "QB guru" who loves to overpay for Bengals QBs.

Bungles gonna bungle, tho.  Which is a blessing in disguise, because now we don't have to deal with AJ Kessler -  I mean Cody McCarron - oh you know what I mean, next year after we fire Hue.

 

Bullet, dodged.

Actually the league rule is both teams have to independently do it. So if the Browns FO thought that they screwed up 

[DaWg_LB.]

7 minutes ago, Mastercheddaar said:

So you are saying it also takes special teams help to be this bad as well? 

That is all

Mastercheddaar

 

ALL three phases my Friend....all three LOL

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

11 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

They all need to go.

Not you too!!!

I thought Brits were smart with their fancy accents and all.... 

[Aztec Hammer]

Just now, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Not you too!!!

I thought Brits were smart with their fancy accents and all.... 

I want to say that it's a good idea to keep Hue and ditch the front office, but he's making it difficult. He doesn't inspire a lot of confidence as HC, sometimes it appears that he's overwhelmed by the role. This McCarron news seems like a reactionary decision made after learning about the incompetence of Sashi not knowing about Garoppolo. But I don't know what good it would've done to give up a 2nd and a 3rd like that. Add the 2nd burned on Kizer and the unwillingness to put his name to a number one pick QB in the next draft - he looks lost.

Can't be helped at all by the clowns in the office though.

If I had to choose between them, it would be to get rid of the front office and keep the coaches.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

Just now, Aztec Hammer said:

I want to say that it's a good idea to keep Hue and ditch the front office, but he's making it difficult. He doesn't inspire a lot of confidence as HC, sometimes it appears that he's overwhelmed by the role. This McCarron news seems like a reactionary decision made after learning about the incompetence of Sashi not knowing about Garoppolo. But I don't know what good it would've done to give up a 2nd and a 3rd like that. Add the 2nd burned on Kizer and the unwillingness to put his name to a number one pick QB in the next draft - he looks lost.

Can't be helped at all by the clowns in the office though.

If I had to choose between them, it would be to get rid of the front office and keep the coaches.

Just because they haven't spent a top pick on a qb yet doesn't mean they're AREN'T willing to, they just haven't been willing to YET.

I mean we're a half dozen losses away from fitting Darnold for his jersey IMO.

[Aztec Hammer]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Just because they haven't spent a top pick on a qb yet doesn't mean they're AREN'T willing to, they just haven't been willing to YET.

I mean we're a half dozen losses away from fitting Darnold for his jersey IMO.

I hope so.

I was more so assuming that had they dropped a 2nd and 3rd on McCarron, we probably wouldn't have used the #1 on a QB in the draft. 

A blessing in disguise that it fell through. It's surely time they went into a draft and picked the top QB.