CBrownsman Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 BTW this could very well be Sam Hinkie all over again. I can see it now. Haslem cleans house, hires a new GM and HC, they draft Darnold (or whatever franchise QB) first overall. Have 5 more picks in the top 65 and 120 million dollars to add play makers with the O-line, TE's and front 7 in good shape. We finally start to win a good number of games, and the new regime gets all the credit even though it was set up by Hue getting pooped on and the front offices plan for a long rebuild. If Hue could only take his licks and not throw a fit that they don't have a QB to win right now, and if only Jimmy could be patient, I think this FO and Coaching Staff would be very successful and around for a VERY long time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big poppa pump Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 1 minute ago, CBrownsman said: Do you think Watson or Wentz would be good with our line last year or with our weapons this year? Wentz has the best line in the NFL, a proven TE and a decent receiving core. Watson has Hopkins, and Fuller, getting open all over the field. If the plan was the build the lines and the defensive front seven first, and then get play makers and a QB, why are we mad that we are passing on literally any QB that people see is available...in fact we have used those picks to build the lines and the front 7 and starting to put together the weapons... This FO seems to believe the QB is the last thing you add to the puzzle, I hope they get a chance to do it.... With all this studly young talent we have, and with the marked improvement on the Defensive Front, why have we have 1 win in the last season and a half? Why has our D given up 30 points or more in 4 of the 8 games played? Is it because of the stellar drafting, and awesome FA signings? You can't be epic bad and say that was the "plan" That doesn't work. There has to be some sort of progression. I do believe that we would see more success with having Watson or Wentz on this team. Philly was garbage when they drafted Wentz. They weren't a QB away. There is no guarantee that Darnold will even come out this year. If you are comfortable with Lamar Jackson, or Josh Rosen....well..ok. What if the nerds decide that Barkley is heads and shoulders above them? Then they will have ignored the position for the 3rd year in a row. I am willing to sit back and watch...but I think we will see more of the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 2 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: If Hue is that desperate, isn't it the owners job to settle him? I think it's a combination of the owner, front office, and self regulation. I know what it's like to be a frustrated coach/player that wants to win NOW. The competitor in you wants immediate results, as it should. 2 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: If everyone is as committed and understanding as they say, that shouldn't be an issue. I would agree with this, but it makes me wonder if things have been going on below the surface for some time. Hue, all the way back in April, wanted Watson at 12/Hooker if they didn't go QB and admitted Watson was #1 on his draft board but the FO made the decision to pull the trigger on the trade back. 2 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Is Hue still desperate if Haslam guarantees publically that he's back next year? He shouldn't be, unless Haslem pulls the BS "Well things changed when we went winless/won 1 game like last year." card at the end of the season. 2 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: IF this is the case, its ownership's fault, not Hue's for wanting to save his job and reputation or Sashi's for wanting to stay on course. I won't deny that, but excuse me if I don't completely trust anything that Truckstop Jimmy says or does, and I can't help but wonder if Hue feels the same way. I could be wrong though, as it wouldn't be my first time. Chances are we won't know for a LONG time, if ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Just now, big poppa pump said: With all this studly young talent we have, and with the marked improvement on the Defensive Front, why have we have 1 win in the last season and a half? Why has our D given up 30 points or more in 4 of the 8 games played? Is it because of the stellar drafting, and awesome FA signings? You can't be epic bad and say that was the "plan" That doesn't work. There has to be some sort of progression. I do believe that we would see more success with having Watson or Wentz on this team. Philly was garbage when they drafted Wentz. They weren't a QB away. There is no guarantee that Darnold will even come out this year. If you are comfortable with Lamar Jackson, or Josh Rosen....well..ok. What if the nerds decide that Barkley is heads and shoulders above them? Then they will have ignored the position for the 3rd year in a row. I am willing to sit back and watch...but I think we will see more of the same. We've been bad for a number of reasons, primarily though because of the play of our rookie qb who is turning the ball over a ton and our WR's who are epically awful. One offseason can change all of that, just like one offseason changed our DL/front 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 2 minutes ago, MWil23 said: I think it's a combination of the owner, front office, and self regulation. I know what it's like to be a frustrated coach/player that wants to win NOW. The competitor in you wants immediate results, as it should. I would agree with this, but it makes me wonder if things have been going on below the surface for some time. Hue, all the way back in April, wanted Watson at 12/Hooker if they didn't go QB and admitted Watson was #1 on his draft board but the FO made the decision to pull the trigger on the trade back. He shouldn't be, unless Haslem pulls the BS "Well things changed when we went winless/won 1 game like last year." card at the end of the season. I won't deny that, but excuse me if I don't completely trust anything that Truckstop Jimmy says or does, and I can't help but wonder if Hue feels the same way. I could be wrong though, as it wouldn't be my first time. Chances are we won't know for a LONG time, if ever. I wouldn't trust him either, which is just another reason to keep Hue and Sashi in place, he has no credibility at this point. Let these guys learn from their mistakes and continue moving forward. Fences can be mended, IF they were ever broken (lots of assumptions and such by all parties here). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamcanadian Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 10 hours ago, DizzyDean said: Except no good GM or front office person will come here out of fear for being fired the very next year. This is really a solid analysis of our situation. Haslam has shown that he has a quick trigger finger with 2 FO's already, so why would a talented potential GM want to come to the Browns??? Not that they didn't deserve to be fired, but that just shows how incompetent Haslam is as an owner, in judging FO talent. It becomes a vicious circle. How could the Gods give us 2 owners as incompetent as Lerner and Haslam, it just isn't fair!!! Somebody must have cursed us to be this unlucky!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big poppa pump Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 1 minute ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: We've been bad for a number of reasons, primarily though because of the play of our rookie qb who is turning the ball over a ton and our WR's who are epically awful. One offseason can change all of that, just like one offseason changed our DL/front 7. Is it the Offense that has given up 25 pts a game? While I would concede that they are partially to blame for not sustaining drives, and allowing the other team more possessions, the D has to get a lot of blame. We have looked good against the run. Our LB's can't cover a TE. Our DB's (whom many have praised) are still giving up chunks of yards in the passing game. It's the same old story every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrownsman Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 8 minutes ago, big poppa pump said: With all this studly young talent we have, and with the marked improvement on the Defensive Front, why have we have 1 win in the last season and a half? Why has our D given up 30 points or more in 4 of the 8 games played? Is it because of the stellar drafting, and awesome FA signings? You can't be epic bad and say that was the "plan" That doesn't work. There has to be some sort of progression. I do believe that we would see more success with having Watson or Wentz on this team. Philly was garbage when they drafted Wentz. They weren't a QB away. There is no guarantee that Darnold will even come out this year. If you are comfortable with Lamar Jackson, or Josh Rosen....well..ok. What if the nerds decide that Barkley is heads and shoulders above them? Then they will have ignored the position for the 3rd year in a row. I am willing to sit back and watch...but I think we will see more of the same. I'm not saying its all this, but it doesn't help that our offense can't stay on the field. We are first in the NFL in defense against the rush in yards per attempt despite having 8th highest attempts per game because we have been constantly behind. The young QB has been holding onto the ball for too long because he can't throw his receivers open and he is waiting for one to get open then rifling it in there, which means the O-Line has to hold their blockers longer. I'm not saying its an approach everyone takes but the Eagles were head and shoulders above where we were offensively when they got Wentz, and the Texans were a QB away with a stellar D, and the receiver and RB they have in place, heck they made the playoffs last year with Brock Osweiler... Yeah it sucks to walk away from QB's who are playing great, but they didn't seem like a sure thing at the time, and they DEFINITELY were less of a sure thing with what we had in place... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrownsman Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 6 minutes ago, big poppa pump said: Is it the Offense that has given up 25 pts a game? While I would concede that they are partially to blame for not sustaining drives, and allowing the other team more possessions, the D has to get a lot of blame. We have looked good against the run. Our LB's can't cover a TE. Our DB's (whom many have praised) are still giving up chunks of yards in the passing game. It's the same old story every year. Also it doesn't help that our stud DE has been hurt most of the year, and on a snap count when he is in. And I didn't say we didn't need more talent in the defensive backfield. We NEED a free safety, and another CB, but if you want our team to be perfect like Hue, I don't know what to tell you. We don't have the Broncos D, but even they are giving up a TON of yards because of poor QB play this year... have you been paying attention to that? Also they have Paxton Lynch, were not complaining about passing on him at 15?!?!?! Mary Kay wanted him bad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 7 minutes ago, big poppa pump said: Is it the Offense that has given up 25 pts a game? While I would concede that they are partially to blame for not sustaining drives, and allowing the other team more possessions, the D has to get a lot of blame. We have looked good against the run. Our LB's can't cover a TE. Our DB's (whom many have praised) are still giving up chunks of yards in the passing game. It's the same old story every year. Eh, fumbles deep in the opponents end of the field, an inability to extend drives, injuries to key pieces (Garrett, Shelton, Collins, Peppers, McCourty), YOUTH, and yes, a lack of talent. Theyve made some strides but this didn't a complete roster yet. Even if they fix WR and QB this offseason, they'll still be adding to the defense as well and they guys we have will be a year older and more experienced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSURacerDT55 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 18 minutes ago, CBrownsman said: BTW this could very well be Sam Hinkie all over again. I can see it now. Haslem cleans house, hires a new GM and HC, they draft Darnold (or whatever franchise QB) first overall. Have 5 more picks in the top 65 and 120 million dollars to add play makers with the O-line, TE's and front 7 in good shape. We finally start to win a good number of games, and the new regime gets all the credit even though it was set up by Hue getting pooped on and the front offices plan for a long rebuild. If Hue could only take his licks and not throw a fit that they don't have a QB to win right now, and if only Jimmy could be patient, I think this FO and Coaching Staff would be very successful and around for a VERY long time.... Same thing happened with San Francisco with Mike Singletary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSURacerDT55 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 11 minutes ago, big poppa pump said: Is it the Offense that has given up 25 pts a game? While I would concede that they are partially to blame for not sustaining drives, and allowing the other team more possessions, the D has to get a lot of blame. We have looked good against the run. Our LB's can't cover a TE. Our DB's (whom many have praised) are still giving up chunks of yards in the passing game. It's the same old story every year. You answered your own question right there, how would you feel if you were on that defense and are dead dog tired but had to try to get "another stop" because our offense is so inept. If anything, I give props to Greg Williams for keeping his side of the ball tight without it being a brawl between the Offense and Defense. Also, who said our DB need praise, our DBs are trash outside of Jamar Taylor who is really a #2 corner, McCourty who playing on bought time, and BBC, and how is it the same story every year, we couldn't stop teams running on us to save our lives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSURacerDT55 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 7 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Eh, fumbles deep in the opponents end of the field, an inability to extend drives, injuries to key pieces (Garrett, Shelton, Collins, Peppers, McCourty), YOUTH, and yes, a lack of talent. Theyve made some strides but this didn't a complete roster yet. Even if they fix WR and QB this offseason, they'll still be adding to the defense as well and they guys we have will be a year older and more experienced. Our defense is clear "tangible" evidence of improvement, just imagine when we get some interior pressure and not have to blitz both middle linebackers on 3rd and long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamcanadian Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 1 minute ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: I wouldn't trust him either, which is just another reason to keep Hue and Sashi in place, he has no credibility at this point. Let these guys learn from their mistakes and continue moving forward. Fences can be mended, IF they were ever broken (lots of assumptions and such by all parties here). I cannot agree, when you break the all time record for incompetence by going possibly 1-31, you simply have to clean ship and start over, You really have no choice. We just have to pray that whoever Haslam hires to replace our current FO, is far more talented than this FO and believe me, I know, with Haslam making the chose on our new FO, it's a crapshoot at best but it has to be done. Hue may well be used as the FO's scapegoat, but whoever Haslam hires as our new FO/GM, he will want to bring in his own man anyways, so Hue is gone either way. It isn't completely fair to him, but that is pro sports. It also isn't that I am against learning on the job, it can work as long as you have a solid base to start with and I am just not seeing it with Sachi. He has to carry the blame for a 1-31 record, the consequences for not even being able to complete a trade and hiring a HC who could not win for him. You cannot be that incompetent and expect to keep your job, unless the owner is even more incompetent than you. If Sachi could not see how talented Wentz was or Watson appears to be, then I simply do not want him deciding on who to draft with our #1 overall pick next draft, to play QB for us. It is just too scary to think where this franchise will end up if he picks the wrong QB. According to the rumours, He wanted Kizer and Jackson wanted Watson, if true, get him out of here before we are facing a decade or longer of being a bottom feeder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns1987 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 I fire whoever wanted to give a 2nd and a 3rd for McCarron, which in this case was Hue Jackson. Give a raise to whoever sabotaged it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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