The Ftont office or the coaches?

[DizzyDean]

Just now, Kiwibrown said:

Plural. I have a pair. 

Once you hit rock bottom there is only one way. That is up. We have found out what kizer rock bottom is, now we will start to see the real Deshonne Kizer. 

Still waiting for the needle to start pointing up for Brady Quinn in that case.

[Kiwibrown]

11 minutes ago, DizzyDean said:

Still waiting for the needle to start pointing up for Brady Quinn in that case.

I guess IMO Quinn was fundamentally flawed as a passer and I do not believe that Kizer is. 

I could be wrong. I could be right. I am an enthusiastic amateur from New Zealand. 

 

[hornbybrown]

33 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said:

Plural. I have a pair. 

Once you hit rock bottom there is only one way. That is up. We have found out what kizer rock bottom is, now we will start to see the real Deshonne Kizer. 

If any team can find away to go lower than rock bottom it’s the Cleveland Browns. 

I fully expect us to spend the bye week digging below rock bottom 

[Kiwibrown]

34 minutes ago, hornbybrown said:

If any team can find away to go lower than rock bottom it’s the Cleveland Browns. 

I fully expect us to spend the bye week digging below rock bottom 

It is possible, maybe probable, 

But it might not be. 

CC and JG and MG all make the team a heck of a lot better next game if they are there. If Jg wants 100 million dollars he is going to play better than KB.. 

[DizzyDean]

2 hours ago, Kiwibrown said:

I guess IMO Quinn was fundamentally flawed as a passer and I do not believe that Kizer is. 

I could be wrong. I could be right. I am an enthusiastic amateur from New Zealand. 

 

He is not Brady Quinn flawed, but he is pretty flawed in multiple ways, thus the project label.  His accuracy is horrible, and his mental processing is possibly the slowest in the league, and these are both traits that he carried forward from ND, and they are both getting worse, not better.

[Kiwibrown]

1 minute ago, DizzyDean said:

He is not Brady Quinn flawed, but he is pretty flawed in multiple ways, thus the project label.  His accuracy is horrible, and his mental processing is possibly the slowest in the league, and these are both traits that he carried forward from ND, and they are both getting worse, not better.

fI don't agree with horrible accuracy. More inconsistent. The pass to Higgins that got the int a couple o weeks ago was awful. 
the pass to Louis last week that beat xavier rhodes was amazing. He is the most polar QB in terms of placement I have seen.
Where Quinn ould throw the ball to save his life and was bailed out for a few years by tall and NFL calibre WR and rb's. 

Also you didn't comment on Fred Dagg an NZ national treasure. 

[NateDawg]

Kizer is bad, and the failed and desperate attempts to get McCarron only further show that even our incompetent FO is realizing it to. He’s even worse than I thought he was, coming out. 

Those nerds will be lucky to see 2018. If they do, they’re all fighting for their jobs and livelihood. What are the chances that they stake their dreams on Kizer behind Center? I’d say about zero. Self preservation at this point. 

[DizzyDean]

48 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said:

fI don't agree with horrible accuracy. More inconsistent. The pass to Higgins that got the int a couple o weeks ago was awful. 
the pass to Louis last week that beat xavier rhodes was amazing. He is the most polar QB in terms of placement I have seen.
Where Quinn ould throw the ball to save his life and was bailed out for a few years by tall and NFL calibre WR and rb's. 

Also you didn't comment on Fred Dagg an NZ national treasure. 

Consistency is the biggest part of accuracy.  If you throw one amazing ball a game, and the rest are absolutely horrible, that is the definition of terrible accuracy.  A buddy of mine and I were recently discussing it.  My friend was wondering out loud if he was purposely throwing very low to try to avoid being picked off.  If so, news flash, it ain't working!

You can dog all of our WRs all you want, but when the ball is routinely put in a place to either not be caught, or get the receiver tackled as soon as they catch it, that is not on them, that is on the QB.  Yes, there have been some legit drops that were on the WR, there has been a lot more on Kizer however though when it comes to WRs catching balls that are not really catchable, and certainly he hardly ever hits them in stride, leads them, anticipates, or throws them open.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

2 hours ago, NateDawg said:

Kizer is bad, and the failed and desperate attempts to get McCarron only further show that even our incompetent FO is realizing it to. He’s even worse than I thought he was, coming out. 

Those nerds will be lucky to see 2018. If they do, they’re all fighting for their jobs and livelihood. What are the chances that they stake their dreams on Kizer behind Center? I’d say about zero. Self preservation at this point. 

Was Kizer every the qbotf or just opportunity meets need with a supremely physically talented, absurdly young qb with incredible upside being available towards the end of round 2?

If we draft a stud like Darnold (or whomever folks like) in April, no one will give two poops about DeShone Kizer other than brownie man.

If anything the fact the front office didn't sell the farm for Garoppolo or McCarron should be a pretty good indication they're all pretty secure in their jobs.

[ditchdigger]

28 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

If anything the fact the front office didn't sell the farm for Garoppolo or McCarron should be a pretty good indication they're all pretty secure in their jobs.

Tin foil hat time.

I think Hue pulled rank and was the driver of the negotiations with Cincy through backdoor channels, and submitted an offer that the front office nixed at 3:55.

If that is even remotely true, it is in and of itself is a fireable offense.

[vike daddy]

Reeling from the most public yet of their many humiliations, the Browns have blamed the failed trade for quarterback A.J. McCarron on the bunglings of the Bengals, telling Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer that the Bengals failed to send to the league the trade document signed by both teams, after the Browns had sent the signed paperwork to Cincinnati.

There’s one small problem with that excuse. That’s not how trades are communicated to the league. And every key member of every front office knows, or should know, the proper procedure.

Per multiple league sources, a trade becomes official only when both teams independently communicate the trade to the league office. It definitely doesn’t happen as the Browns claim they tried to do it, with chain of communication involving one team sending a form to the other team, which then signs the form and sends it to the league.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/10/31/browns-mccarron-excuse-doesnt-mesh-with-nfl-procedures/

[ditchdigger]

Incompetence or sabotage, either way, somebody's getting fired.  This is someone's Waterloo. Napoleon abdicated the throne 4 days later.  I don't think we'll have to wait that long.

[Bonanza23]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Was Kizer every the qbotf or just opportunity meets need with a supremely physically talented, absurdly young qb with incredible upside being available towards the end of round 2?

If we draft a stud like Darnold (or whomever folks like) in April, no one will give two poops about DeShone Kizer other than brownie man.

If anything the fact the front office didn't sell the farm for Garoppolo or McCarron should be a pretty good indication they're all pretty secure in their jobs.

Yeah this is the way I see it too. 

[dawgdish]

I'm in favor of giving all another year to see if this rebuild starts to bear fruit, as it clearly wasn't a 2 year plan, but with adding someone on the football/personnel side of the F.O. and giving them final say over the roster and keeping Sashi on the business side where he (marginally) belongs

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

2 minutes ago, dawgdish said:

I'm in favor of giving all another year to see if this rebuild starts to bear fruit, as it clearly wasn't a 2 year plan, but with adding someone on the football/personnel side of the F.O. and giving them final say over the roster and keeping Sashi on the business side where he (marginally) belongs

Someone other than Berry and Grigson?  

I'm not sure how many top guys want to come to a situation where they don't pick their coach. You end up with a younger personnel guy looking to advance his career on the scouting side, a la Andrew Berry, but not the top shelf GM prospects.

Even if the GM has control of the 53, Sashi and DePodesta will be calling the shots as far as trades and such, probably free agents as well.  That's kinda the point of the moneyball philosophy. 

Not really sure how you integrate a personnel guy who has a role larger than Berry's currently without bailing on the current plan entirely.