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The Ftont office or the coaches?

hornbybrown

By hornbybrown
in Cleveland Browns

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Mastercheddaar

Mastercheddaar

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, DizzyDean said:

I still hope we don't drop the 1st overall on a QB.  There are some very good prospects at the position next year.  Trade up from Houston's pick to get one if you don't think one falls.  Don't screw up, Barkley appears to be a generational type of talent.  Take him at 1 and be happy.  We can get him and get our QB.  If we take a QB at 1 overall there is no chance that we get Barkley.

I can't agree with you all the way here. True RB is a plug and play position. We would instantly get production out of Barkley.  Barkley would be great but he is not a franchise QB. He does not have the shelf life either. Also look at where all the top RBs come from. We can pick up a good back in the 2nd. What we cannot get in the 2nd is a good QB. Look at recent attempts... :/  If there is a kid that comes out of bowl games and columbine that blows the roof off then he is our guy. You take him and you do not look back. QB > RB. This looks like our year to get the guy. Use the other 4 top 64 picks to draft linemen, WRs, and a RB. I would love it if we went 4 offense rookies and 1 defense this year in the first 2 rounds. We need it. 

That is all

mastercheddaar

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dawgdish

dawgdish

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23 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

We need a guy to find a franchise qb and Grigson has done that, regardless as to how easy the decision may have been.

He could have traded the pick for an epic haul, he could have drafted RGIII, but he didn't.

I agree - incredibly smart move. Too bad our moneyball guys can't seem to figure out that's what you do when you're staring a franchise QB in the face.

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LETSGOBROWNIES

LETSGOBROWNIES

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17 minutes ago, dawgdish said:

I agree - incredibly smart move. Too bad our moneyball guys can't seem to figure out that's what you do when you're staring a franchise QB in the face.

So now Carson Wentz (as a prospect) was equal to Luck?  They call that revisionist history I believe.

Didn't Hue also sign off on passing on him? Isn't he a "football guy"?

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bosko1616

bosko1616

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20 hours ago, Mastercheddaar said:

I can't agree with you all the way here. True RB is a plug and play position. We would instantly get production out of Barkley.  Barkley would be great but he is not a franchise QB. He does not have the shelf life either. Also look at where all the top RBs come from. We can pick up a good back in the 2nd. What we cannot get in the 2nd is a good QB. Look at recent attempts... :/  If there is a kid that comes out of bowl games and columbine that blows the roof off then he is our guy. You take him and you do not look back. QB > RB. This looks like our year to get the guy. Use the other 4 top 64 picks to draft linemen, WRs, and a RB. I would love it if we went 4 offense rookies and 1 defense this year in the first 2 rounds. We need it. 

That is all

mastercheddaar

I think I’d want to stay away from that type of guy. But that’s just my opinion

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dawgdish

dawgdish

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1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

So now Carson Wentz (as a prospect) was equal to Luck?  They call that revisionist history I believe.

Didn't Hue also sign off on passing on him? Isn't he a "football guy"?

Your points might start becoming salient when you learn basic tenants of logic and debate, like the straw man argument (aka don't put words in other people's mouth)

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mistakey

mistakey

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1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

So now Carson Wentz (as a prospect) was equal to Luck?  They call that revisionist history I believe.

Didn't Hue also sign off on passing on him? Isn't he a "football guy"?

26 year old from NDSU with injury history and about ~25 total starts screams cant miss to me

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mistakey

mistakey

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43 minutes ago, dawgdish said:

Your points might start becoming salient when you learn basic tenants of logic and debate, like the straw man argument (aka don't put words in other people's mouth)

na they're pretty salient

which franchise qb was staring them in the face? Wentz? Watson? Mahomes? Trubisky?
Which one of those qbs were on the same cant miss caliber of Luck?

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Iamcanadian

Iamcanadian

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On 11/2/2017 at 10:24 AM, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Well they kinda controlled the talent level by not spending any cap space, that's one way to assure you'll be picking high.  

Another would be to have the youngest team in the league. Check.

Another would be to trade away/cut aging vets. Check.

Another would be to start a rookie qb. Check.

"Flubbing" a trade deadline deal that reeks of desperation for a 3 win season. Check.

Kenny Britt.  Check.

I mean, this wasnt exactly an anomaly or a crazy set of circumstances, it was pretty much by design.

I will give them that they likely set out to tank the season in order to guarantee getting a franchise QB, although it is weird, that if that was their plan all along, why waste a 2nd rounder on a dud like Kizer??? If their plan was to tank the season, they could have started anybody!!! So, was it by design???

Also, if they intended to get their QB in season 3, how did they know 2 years ago, how good a crop of QB's might be available for the 2018 draft??? There was no way to tell by the 2016 draft.

The above 2 points suggest to me, that they only had a plan to get assets and nothing more beyond that. Winning franchises draft game changers, who make all the difference between being a winner or a loser and outside of Garrett, I am not seeing much in the way of game changers coming out of their drafts. After all, they had the 1st pick in each round and were still out drafted by many teams.

Their story is simple, they likely have passed on 2 franchise QB's, the hardest position to fill on a football team and that speaks volumes to me about their ability to assess talent.

Then, there is their likely 1-31 record, a sign that they simply cannot draft talent, because no FO has ever come close to being this terrible for any reason.

All you offer is excuses for their failure, not spending cap money, which by the way, I agree with, youngest team in the league, like that has never happened before, so why the 1-31 record???, trade/cut vets, again, something I liked, start a rookie QB, why not start Kessler and not waste a 2nd rounder on a dud??? Flubbing a trade, give me a break, do they run the FO or not, so why make the trade in the 1st place??? Kenny Britt, ya, pay a guy millions who you know won't succeed, or why not just start a bum who is already on your pitiful roster???

Blaming Hue for the failures, man, they hired him, if he is a flop then their ability to assess HC's is a total flop???

Your claim that all this isn't just a crazy set of circumstances, but pretty much by design, rings hollow to me, it smalls a lot more like total incompetence IMO.

Again, just my opinion, but after running 2 drafts, I am not seeing a roster outside of Garrett, that can become a winner anytime in the near future, their 5 year plan is looking more like a 10 year plan to me and that is only if they can actually assess the QB's available in this year's draft and pick the best one, a very doubtful happening, IMO.

I'll say this LETSGOBROWNIES, your one heck of an optimist and see only the best in people, I hope your right and I am dead wrong, because I see only a bleak future for our beloved franchise. I am 74 and my experience as an Executive Director and HC of a sport in Canada, tells me this franchise smells rotten at its core and we are in for a long run at futility. I'll be amazed if these guys survive another season in their jobs. but our owner is even more incompetent than they are, so anything is possible!!!!

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Thomas5737

Thomas5737

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Posted
1 hour ago, mistakey said:

na they're pretty salient

which franchise qb was staring them in the face? Wentz? Watson? Mahomes? Trubisky?
Which one of those qbs were on the same cant miss caliber of Luck?

Honestly as prospects the closest things to sure things as a franchise QB that I remember is Luck and Peyton and Luck has only been good not top 5 QB good and borderline top 10.

Individually people can say they loved Russell Wilson more than any QB to ever come out and he was an obvious franchise QB but that doesn't make them a great prospect overall, only in that indiviual's eyes,  even if they were correct in their assessment. However if you were beating your chest for Wilson and it didn't happen then we failed miserably in your eyes no matter that most people disagreed with you.

I get frustrated when people say we passed on a franchise QB because it doesn't actually happen. They are just prospects like any other QB. There is no science that accurately projects the play of a college QB in the NFL. If we were offered a trade for Aaron Rodgers and turned it down then we would have passed on getting a franchise QB.

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LETSGOBROWNIES

LETSGOBROWNIES

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20 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Honestly as prospects the closest things to sure things as a franchise QB that I remember is Luck and Peyton and Luck has only been good not top 5 QB good and borderline top 10.

Individually people can say they loved Russell Wilson more than any QB to ever come out and he was an obvious franchise QB but that doesn't make them a great prospect overall, only in that indiviual's eyes,  even if they were correct in their assessment. However if you were beating your chest for Wilson and it didn't happen then we failed miserably in your eyes no matter that most people disagreed with you.

I get frustrated when people say we passed on a franchise QB because it doesn't actually happen. They are just prospects like any other QB. There is no science that accurately projects the play of a college QB in the NFL. If we were offered a trade for Aaron Rodgers and turned it down then we would have passed on getting a franchise QB.

You could probably add Eli to that list, and did would have included Cam (loved him) but many wouldn't and I understand why, but I get your point.

Folks act incredulous that they passed on "franchise QB's", but they didn't, they passed on prospects who the time had some question marks around them.

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Thomas5737

Thomas5737

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15 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

You could probably add Eli to that list, and did would have included Cam (loved him) but many wouldn't and I understand why, but I get your point.

Folks act incredulous that they passed on "franchise QB's", but they didn't, they passed on prospects who the time had some question marks around them.

I'm no QB expect as far as knowing who will pan out in the NFL, my record speaks for itself, but I wasn't big on Cam or Eli. Eli has a lot of people questioning him and Cam was exciting and an unique as far as an NFL: QB prospect and both were thought pretty highly of overall but I'm not sure it was much more than your run of the mill #1 selected QB like Stafford, Goff, Winston etc... They seem much closer to those prospects as a consensus (in my perspective anyway) than to Peyton or Luck.

I once said that Manziel would have more total touchdowns in his first two season than Derek Carr would have in his career. oops

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