2021 GDT Week #14 TNF Steelers visit Da Vikings

[CKSteeler]

Ben in the 4th quarter tonight.

13/16 189 yards, 2 TD's, 155.47 QB rating

Ben on the year in the 4th

108/154 1223 yards, 10 TD's, 1 INT, 112.55 QB rating

21 fourth quarter points tonight. Now 2nd in the league in points per game in the 4th quarter. 

But nothing changes in the 4th. Nothing at all about the play calling or Ben's play. It's just plain dumb luck.

Edited December 10, 2021 by CKSteeler

[VigilantZombie]

1 hour ago, Dcash4 said:

Ron Howard Narration: cam Sutton, in fact, did not have a Twitter 

Check out his profile man. 2 different posts during the 3rd qtr. It's a verified account. He threatened one fan, and argued with another.

[warfelg]

5 hours ago, wwhickok said:

Check out his profile man. 2 different posts during the 3rd qtr. It's a verified account. He threatened one fan, and argued with another.

That’s not him. 

[warfelg]

Yes Ben played better late, but that's not the argument.

The argument is that Ben isn't doing it alone.  The argument is just because the 4th quarter is better doesn't mean he's good.  The defense produces more turnovers in the 4th (happened yet again in the 4th were the defense gave the offense 2 short fields).  Opposing defense plays more prevent opening up more under stuff for Ben.  Last night WR's started making some great plays on the ball in the 4th that they weren't making earlier.  Vikings started making some inexplicable play calls throughout the second half.  

Comebacks don't happen because of the play of a single person.  They happen because of total team play.  

Just look at the first half last night, and this is from Dan Moore Jr, not me; they were bringing weakside pressure on almost every down.  They knew where to come from.  Then in the second half they started motioning the TE, but the pressure stopped coming too.  They were able to beat plays because they knew Ben's not a threat to keep and move with the ball.  That allows the backside pursuit to get there as long as you hold the strong side.  And they were.  They were manning our WR's and playing single high with 8 in the box, bringing 3-4 on the weakside while staying gap disciplined on the strong side.

And the side that was getting burned wasn't the Moore-Leglue side.  They had the TE help all game.  The side getting burned was the Okorafor-Turner side.  The side with the "better players" on it.  The side with the vets.  Minny went away from that for some reason in the second half and it gave Ben the ability to read the defense at the meshpoint and make better decisions on where to go with the ball.  

Ever since the WFT game last year, and even the "Thanksgiving" Baltimore game before that, the book is out there with the current iteration of Ben to bring the backside pressure like that.  Ben's 39 and just not mobile.  What's letting the Steelers back into games this year isn't that things are different offensively.  Hell you could argue for his entire career Ben is better in the 4th because he/coaches go to the "muddle" offense and it keeps the same defensive package out on the field allowing Ben to find the weakness.  What's letting Ben "cook" in the 4th is teams have become, historically to a fault, less aggressive in the 4th.  

Personally, if I were Mike Zimmer, I would have kept the heat on defensively.  You know your offense is hot and cold.  Why they decided to let up the pressure is baffling.  Because once you let up it's hard to turn it back on again.  That's why Cincy blew us out while LAC, Balt, Minny have all let us in the game.  Cincy was the only one to keep on the pressure all game in both games.  

But of course you have to watch and know football to understand this stuff.  I'm expecting some derp response that has just random stats thrown in with some crying about how Ben's great and what not without any actual conversation about why things happen, just like the response to the conversation about the TD attempt as time expired, which didn't guarantee we win FWIW.

[warfelg]

As a team captain that’s literally what he should do. As the WB that’s literally what he should do. If he really wants to win that’s literally what he should do. 

[MOSteelers56]

55 minutes ago, warfelg said:

As a team captain that’s literally what he should do. As the WB that’s literally what he should do. If he really wants to win that’s literally what he should do. 

I wonder if this is kind of a last straw situation with Ben in regards to Chase. He's been screwing up pretty constantly for the past year. Maybe Ben's already talked to him and it hasn't sunk in. We don't know the details. 

[AFF]

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

As a team captain that’s literally what he should do. As the WB that’s literally what he should do. If he really wants to win that’s literally what he should do. 

More than likely it’s already been tried to keep things in house and address it....since that didn’t work, maybe making it public is the way to go. 
 

Sometimes embarrassing or putting people in blast is a away to go.

[Dcash4]

7 hours ago, wwhickok said:

Check out his profile man. 2 different posts during the 3rd qtr. It's a verified account. He threatened one fan, and argued with another.

Ah yes, the player with the Seahawks jersey on in his twitter avatar and tweeting during the game is probably the Cam Sutton who was playing...

https://www.nfl.com/players/cam-sutton/

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

Minny went away from that for some reason in the second half and it gave Ben the ability to read the defense at the meshpoint and make better decisions on where to go with the ball.  

This is probably the biggest part of why I laugh at the King of the 4th stuff. Because this is what happens with teams playing with a lead -- specifically, a big lead. Teams that "protect" leads shell it off and protect against the big play first. They are not going to get caught sending pressure and now we bust one down the seam because the Steelers picked it up properly. They will play a style thats far more conservative and if you wanna string together 8-10 plays go 65 yards and score -- fine, but we took 4 minutes off the clock which is far, far more valuable than the points at that stage of the game. 

I am not trying to take away from Ben. He did play well in the 4th and he has. But he still is the Shell of his former self. Three of the bigger plays - sideline to DJ, the TD to Washington, and deep right to Claypool - were god awful throws for a hall of famer. He also had some darts -- like the one to Freiermuth. But, overall, no Ben isn't all of a sudden becoming amazing in the 4th Q. There's a lot of factors that go into the late game success. 

But my god can they realize how much Muddle/no huddle helps the line? Defenses go basic when you speed things up. It's one of the things I said I loved about the idea of Canada in the off-season because he openly talked about changing pace. We just don't. 

And my last thought from re-watching some.

1) Claypool shouldn't play. Dude is a major disappoint this year. On DJ's play that put them in position for that last throw to Pat....Claypool sits on the sideline pointing to DJ to get out of bounds when he could have at least TRIED to pick up a block to help. It's unlikely, but in a desperation time if he helps pick up Harrison Smith and Najee is out in front on the LBer....can DJ Score after he breaks the CB tackle? Don't know...but effort is worth it. Claypool doesn't show any. 

2) Really hated the design of the last play. They knew the coverage that there were getting -- hence why Pat is open in the window -- but they did nothing to take the safeties away. We had claypool in the slot run a check down route -- on the last play of the game needing a TD. They allowed Ray Ray to be the single receiver high (no one cares to double him). We did nothing to grab the attention of the S because there was no other pressure point in the design. They see the play coming the whole way and Ben still throws an absolute dart, but that's a rough catch to make in that traffic. 

If Claypool runs a dig/cross towards the front Pillon he either catches the FS attention and makes him slow to react to Pat because he may have to come up and make a stop or Claypool has a chance to run away from coverage right into the endzone. Or If they take Claypool up the seam and either flag to the back Pillon with DJ coming back to the front or DJ clear with Claypool to the front -- that would draft Harrison Smith away too. Claypool had a wasted route on this play and their S had nothing to occupy them in a known C2 look. You hit the hole shot, but you gave the S's no reason to leave that hole shot wide open. 

[Dcash4]

18 minutes ago, AFF said:

Sometimes embarrassing or putting people in blast is a away to go.

Saw a post from the Steelers twitter before the game of DJ, Pat, Najee, and Claypool during warm ups. Three of them were in Steelers gear. One of them was wearing a shirt with his own face on it. I felt like such an old man that I didn't say anything about it when I saw it...but, one of them just continually seems like they aren't focused on football and it's not a surprise which one it was. 

Just seems pretty clear that Chase thought his success last year was enough for him to just show up and be great. I really hope this year is his awakening (much like DJ's with concentration). 

I always think of the scene in Bull Durham with the shower shoes. I don't think Chase has won 20 in the show yet, so the press isn't going to find him colorful -- Mapletron is about to get a really bad mark on him moving forward. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

Ahkello is far from perfect, but it took him THIS long to see the field? Really? Did Tomlin or any of the coaches actually say why he wasn't active in most weeks and couldn't get on the field?

[MOSteelers56]

27 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Ahkello is far from perfect, but it took him THIS long to see the field? Really? Did Tomlin or any of the coaches actually say why he wasn't active in most weeks and couldn't get on the field?

He played early and got toasted every time he saw the field. He's looking better now. 

[Dcash4]

28 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Ahkello is far from perfect, but it took him THIS long to see the field? Really? Did Tomlin or any of the coaches actually say why he wasn't active in most weeks and couldn't get on the field?

Special teams -- at the early portion of the year he couldn't get a hat because he wasn't the better (more willing?) gunner. 

Also, in his minimal action he got absolutely roasted. 

[MOSteelers56]

I remember Kozora was asked during TC if Claypool looked improved in any way. He said he didn't notice any improvement. That's pretty clear to see when watching him this year. He rested on his laurels and it shows in his play. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

1 minute ago, MOSteelers56 said:

He played early and got toasted every time he saw the field. He's looking better now. 

He played ONE game where he played like four snaps until the last few weeks. The "TD" he allowed was mainly on Fitzpatrick anyways in that coverage. 

1 minute ago, Dcash4 said:

Special teams -- at the early portion of the year he couldn't get a hat because he wasn't the better (more willing?) gunner. 

Also, in his minimal action he got absolutely roasted. 

Until the Chargers game, he had played FOUR snaps to that point. Absolutely "roasted" makes no sense at all lol.

Got it, yeah he wasn't a top STs performer in SF either...Played some, but never stood out there. But I do know one thing, when on his game, he is FAR better than Pierre and corners like that. His issue always has been consistency so I thought maybe he was having bad practices or something. In 2019 before he got hurt, he was better than Sherman who was an all pro that season and last year to close the season, he was one of the best corners in the game. He shows you he can play at a very high level but never has done so for an entire season. Has had confidence issues and I thought maybe Tomlin and this coaching staff could help him there. 

[MOSteelers56]

12 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

He played ONE game where he played like four snaps until the last few weeks. The "TD" he allowed was mainly on Fitzpatrick anyways in that coverage. 

Until the Chargers game, he had played FOUR snaps to that point. Absolutely "roasted" makes no sense at all lol.

Got it, yeah he wasn't a top STs performer in SF either...Played some, but never stood out there. But I do know one thing, when on his game, he is FAR better than Pierre and corners like that. His issue always has been consistency so I thought maybe he was having bad practices or something. In 2019 before he got hurt, he was better than Sherman who was an all pro that season and last year to close the season, he was one of the best corners in the game. He shows you he can play at a very high level but never has done so for an entire season. Has had confidence issues and I thought maybe Tomlin and this coaching staff could help him there. 

So if you already knew this, why did you ask?