2021 Week #16 GDT Steelers visit The Chiefs

[warfelg]

6 hours ago, 43M said:

I mean....in regards to improving the QB position, thats true.   However, a significantly lower cap hit than our current middling QB will allow us to improve other areas of the team while we look for a long term QB. 

Its certainly not "all or nothing".

 

there’s doing to be a day of reckoning where the QB contracts stop inflating relative to the cap at the rate they are because teams are going to realize you can’t commit that much of the cap to the QB and still have a chance. 
 

When Ben signed his first big contract, it was a record setting QB contract. AAV of $14.4million. In one year it accounted for 20% of the cap, averaged 12% for the life of the contract. Mahomes contract is set for $45mil AAV, which is going to account for about 25-30% of the cap. And they have already restructured that contract so it’s only going to get worse on them. 
 

Meanwhile no other positions has seen an increase in the percent of the cap they take up. Their “biggest contract” goes in line with the cap as opposed to QBs as the “next guy paid” increase in percent. 
 

To build a modern NFL team you have to get a QB on a rookie wage contract. Front load as many deals as you can when that cap hit is under $10mil. Then extend the QB with a high cap hit when everyone else is seeing the backend, then hope to backload contracts from there when your QBs cap hit becomes smaller. It’s possible to do. And we are seeing 1 team line themselves up for this cycle. Maybe a 2nd/3rd depending on if they commit to spending or commit to the QB. But I’ll let people figure out who I’m talking about. 
 

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In another spot. Im usually a fan of Alex Kozora but:

This makes no sense. At least you have a few plays where almost everyone goes 10 yards on a route. No play has everyone going 15 or clear the space for 15. And given the way 4th down play calling went to this point I don’t really blame Tomlin for not trusting the offense to get its biggest chunk play of the night. 

[bigben07MVP]

This is the route we need to take. Sign Mariota to a cheap deal, either he surprises us and leads a playoff run or tanks us and puts us in a position to take Bryce Young in 2023. This would also give us a shot to spend some money on improving the o-line in free agency. It’s kind of horrifying how awful the outlook for our o-line is moving forward.  

[warfelg]

10 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said:

This is the route we need to take. Sign Mariota to a cheap deal, either he surprises us and leads a playoff run or tanks us and puts us in a position to take Bryce Young in 2023. This would also give us a shot to spend some money on improving the o-line in free agency. It’s kind of horrifying how awful the outlook for our o-line is moving forward.  

I respectfully disagree with this and I’ll throw something out there:

If we retain Tomlin (likely) but don’t retain either coordinator (possible) then I would circle the wagons on former HCs for these roles. 
 

Like Vic Fangio for DC. Matt Nagy for OC. What worked well for Tomlin early was having this type of setup of an OC/DC he could let work and he could just keep his vision on the grand picture rather than be lost in the weeds. 

[jebrick]

It does not matter much if they hire a young, bright OC.  Tomlin, like Cohwer, like Noll, like conservative offenses.  Even when Cowher had Wisenhunt, he got conservative in the playoffs.

 

It would be best for the Steelers team to hire someone like Kafka as Tomlin/Butler can have good defenses at times.

[warfelg]

1 minute ago, jebrick said:

It does not matter much if they hire a young, bright OC.  Tomlin, like Cohwer, like Noll, like conservative offenses.  Even when Cowher had Wisenhunt, he got conservative in the playoffs.

 

It would be best for the Steelers team to hire someone like Kafka as Tomlin/Butler can have good defenses at times.

Eh. Conversely we’ve had plenty of the Tomlin era with not having a conservative offense. It’s 3 defensive coaches who know that time killing offenses allow a defense to be aggressive. 
 

I think it’s more the ability to have sustained longer drive or at least time killing to get the defense a break is what Tomlin wants. And where I put some of it on the players is we’re last in the league in screen yards and successful screens in the last two years. So basically the way to create a “run game” is terrible too. 

[jebrick]

It is like they switched to the west coast offense without a WC QB or even a slight plan.  WC has the short routes but the (current)passing game relies on having AB there to get open.  Not many schemes or routes to open up players.  It is an offense for Ben of 5-10 years ago.

 

Would you say that KC getting up by over 20 by 1/2 time allowed their defense to be more aggressive?

Edited December 27, 2021 by jebrick

[AFF]

8 hours ago, 43M said:

I mean....in regards to improving the QB position, thats true.   However, a significantly lower cap hit than our current middling QB will allow us to improve other areas of the team while we look for a long term QB. 

Its certainly not "all or nothing".

Besides the voidable year $$$ kicking in, it’s already off the books next year.

They’re going to have plenty of $$$ to improve the team...putting valuable cap space towards a middling guy like Tyrod/Fitzpatrick/Mariota when you know they’re not good enough to get you to a SB makes no sense...that’s why I said pay up for a huge difference maker or @warfelg point...go young and take advantage of their rookie contract and bring in 3-4 solid FAs.

[warfelg]

James Washington on a tear liking tweets from Steelers fans asking for him to be freed. 

[Dcash4]

2 hours ago, warfelg said:

Like Vic Fangio for DC. Matt Nagy for OC. What worked well for Tomlin early was having this type of setup of an OC/DC he could let work and he could just keep his vision on the grand picture rather than be lost in the weeds.

I agree with this with a caveat. He needs to bring in some younger coach that has experience inside of some of the better offensive/modern day defensive coaching staffs along with the former HC coordinator. Kafka is perfect, but he would never come take a QB coach position when he is going to get OC/HC looks. 

But assistant guys like Zac Robinson under McVay or Girardi under Reid potentially becoming the QB coach would be a huge boon for ideas from prominent offensive minds. Potentially even potential retiring QB's like Henne or Chase Daniel if they wanted to get into coaching. 

We need to start building this staff like you have interest in guys getting promoted. It's also a league driven on stealing ideas....we need to start stealing back. 

11 minutes ago, warfelg said:

James Washington on a tear liking tweets from Steelers fans asking for him to be freed. 

Just mind boggling what they did with James. Has a break out season, so they draft his replacement. Then in his contract year they have 3 set in stone starters and decide he is too valuable as a depth piece so they have no intentions of trading him. Plant him on the bench to make sure we get 0 comp value from him. Then when it all comes together with an injury.....its Ray Ray McClouds time to shine. 

I don't even like him that much as a receiver, but what they did to the ASSET in a time where they trade next years 4th, 5th, and 6th.....just dumb. 

[warfelg]

While I don’t disagree with the thought process either of you are having @jebrickand @Dcash4, I’d counter that Tomlin seems to micromanage coordinators without HC experience, which he refers to guys who have been in that place. The coaching carousel is gonna be massive this year and I think it will be easy to find a former HC with an innovative offense.

 

My fear with a guy like Kafka is the same as to anyone offensively from the Andy Reed tree, they have the offense but don’t have the pulse and feel of calling that Andy has. Maybe for a bunch of those guys it was jumping all the way to HC from a non-playcalling position. 
 

Or my other fear is you bring this guy in and a year later he’s poached for a HC job, then you are looking again. Not that it’s a bad thing but constant poaching hurts your team unless it’s your doing. Look at the difference between LAR getting poached and SEA being poached. 

[MOSteelers56]

We shouldn’t have drafted Washington to begin with. I have no issue with them drafting Claypool. Washington is fine, but he’s nothing special. Claypool can be special, and even though he’s not at his ceiling he’s still better than Washington ever has been. We shouldn’t fall in love with Washington. It’s a backup QB is the most popular player situation. Washington is a one trick pony. He’s not fast or quick, his hands aren’t great, he doesn’t separate, can’t play the slot. Claypool does everything Washington does except he’s way better at all of it. If anything, Claypool should be in the slot over Ray-Ray. Let Washington and Diontae play outside. It wouldn’t really help, though. Not with this line, OC, and QB. 

[warfelg]

12 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

If anything, Claypool should be in the slot over Ray-Ray. Let Washington and Diontae play outside.

This is a bigger deal than Claypool being better. 

[warfelg]

Yikes

 

 

[Dcash4]

31 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Or my other fear is you bring this guy in and a year later he’s poached for a HC job, then you are looking again.

This is why I, personally, would focus some of my assistance (specifically QB coach) on up and comers who have aspirations to be more. I've said it before in some of my other coaching comments, but it always amazes me how many offensive minds these top end guys have. McVay and Reid have an OC (despite the fact they call plays), a QB coach, an assistant QB coach, and in many cases a plethora of other offensive assistants to the HC. They have a pipeline. 

It's also why if we had an opening at HC...my next hire would be an offensive head coach. I think we are seeing this more -- Reid, McVay, LaFluer, Reich, Shannahan, Stefanski, Gruden, Kingsbury, Zac Taylor, Siriani....can't have your playcaller promoted off staff if they are the HC. 

But it still goes back to your comments about hiring a former HC as a coordinator that I buy into completely. Have Tomlin hire the Haley type of OC and spend more of his own time on defense. 

[AFF]

1 minute ago, warfelg said:

Yikes

 

 

Just sticking up for his teammates...but that’s gotta get in the OL guys heads that your teammates are tired of hearing how bad you are lol