BDL Discussion Thread 2022

[Ragnarok]

Just now, bcb1213 said:

I'm gonna be heavily against this proposal.  Too many shaninigans like making fake accounts can come into play

Have we ever had an issue with making fake accounts?

That seems like the lesser of two evils considering the direction we are going in.

[EaglesPeteC]

3 hours ago, MWil23 said:

 

I am probably in the minority here, but I'd be all for simulations going forward.

 

Welcome to team sim. Hop your butt inside 

[Jlash]

1 hour ago, Ragnarok said:

I'm going to make a proposal for the owner's meeting.  That we move to blind voting.  If someone wants to explain their vote, they can.  If they want to simply point out something they liked/disliked for each team's write up(which I would probably do), they can.  if they simply want to say they voted, they can.

The reason is that I think it's what needed to keep this league going.  The past couple seasons we have gotten more and more combative with voting.  Keeping track of who votes for who how often, accusations of punitive voting, accusations of voting for personal gain, etc.  We have had and continue to have owners quitting at a higher rate than ever mostly due to this and it has taken away a lot of the fun of the league. 

The offseason/teambuilding is a blast.  Writing/gameplanning is also a ton of fun if a little time consuming.  I personally enjoy reading other people's gameplans and seeing how they value players and how they scheme.  The thing dragging this league down is what happens after a vote is made and the accusations which fly around on the forum and in chats.

Now, there are some votes where I disagree with the reasoning/justification.  However, those are few and far between compared to the number of accusations made and the fights it causes.

A sim would resolve this, but would also probably be the end of the league.  I think blind voting would be the best way to keep the aspects we all enjoy while mitigating the thing that, if not taken care of soon, is probably going to cause BDL to fold.

 

1 hour ago, bcb1213 said:

I'm gonna be heavily against this proposal.  Too many shaninigans like making fake accounts can come into play

Yea I don't know. I like to know why I lose. I get smashed in a game with zero feedback I'm not sure how I'm gonna feel.

We established the transparency in voting BECAUSE votes were getting weird and people were accused of voting against division rivals just to do it. Not sure this helps. 

It's the people with tiny brains and fragile egos that can't allow you to rationally vote against their team without texting you and calling you names that ruin the league. 

I've personally avoided voting on numerous games this year just for the backlash. Because I knew, no matter how sound my reasoning was, it was going to be a tantrum blow up with accusations followed by immense apologies that would just happen again at the first chance. Will that stop when people DON'T have to put why they voted? Nah. It'll be more of the same until people grow up.

[Ragnarok]

14 minutes ago, Jlash said:

 

Yea I don't know. I like to know why I lose. I get smashed in a game with zero feedback I'm not sure how I'm gonna feel.

We established the transparency in voting BECAUSE votes were getting weird and people were accused of voting against division rivals just to do it. Not sure this helps. 

It's the people with tiny brains and fragile egos that can't allow you to rationally vote against their team without texting you and calling you names that ruin the league. 

I've personally avoided voting on numerous games this year just for the backlash. Because I knew, no matter how sound my reasoning was, it was going to be a tantrum blow up with accusations followed by immense apologies that would just happen again at the first chance. Will that stop when people DON'T have to put why they voted? Nah. It'll be more of the same until people grow up.

I don't disagree with anything you've said.  My concern is that at some point, that behavior is going to cause the league to fold due to lack of owners.  Blind voting was the best idea I could come up with, but I am more than open to another idea.

[Jlash]

1 minute ago, Ragnarok said:

that behavior is going to cause the league to fold due to lack of owners

Then the people displaying that behavior don't belong in the league. 

K.I.S.S.

[ny92mike]

@Ragnarok 

17 minutes ago, Jlash said:

A sim would resolve this, but would also probably be the end of the league.  I think blind voting would be the best way to keep the aspects we all enjoy while mitigating the thing that, if not taken care of soon, is probably going to cause BDL to fold.

I've been working on what I'd call a simulation, it's really more of just using stats to project the outcome of a game, but I'm curious why you think using a sim would be the end of the league.  I ask because, I'm looking to start up a GM mock draft that houses a "sim".   

Not opposed to using a blind voting system, however I do have this question about how it would work.  I know that we allow anyone to vote on a matchup regardless if they are part of the league or not but it seems like it could have the potential for just calling up some buddies to vote in your favor each week.  Nonetheless, I like the idea because as @Jlash mentioned, the constant fighting that takes place when you do cast your vote is getting out of hand and I believe is or at the very least has the potential to drive away members.

 

Thanks

[bcb1213]

yea if they think the paranoia is bad now, try not knowing who is actually voting against you and blindly accusing multitudes of people

[EaglesPeteC]

10 minutes ago, bcb1213 said:

yea if they think the paranoia is bad now, try not knowing who is actually voting against you and blindly accusing multitudes of people

[Ragnarok]

18 minutes ago, ny92mike said:

@Ragnarok 

I've been working on what I'd call a simulation, it's really more of just using stats to project the outcome of a game, but I'm curious why you think using a sim would be the end of the league.  I ask because, I'm looking to start up a GM mock draft that houses a "sim".   

Not opposed to using a blind voting system, however I do have this question about how it would work.  I know that we allow anyone to vote on a matchup regardless if they are part of the league or not but it seems like it could have the potential for just calling up some buddies to vote in your favor each week.  Nonetheless, I like the idea because as @Jlash mentioned, the constant fighting that takes place when you do cast your vote is getting out of hand and I believe is or at the very least has the potential to drive away members.

 

Thanks

Because a number of owners, myself included, would probably step away if it became a sim.

As for the potential for abuse, if we started seeing a couple games with 30 votes, I think that'd be an indication of an issue.

[MWil23]

12 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

Because a number of owners, myself included, would probably step away if it became a sim.

As for the potential for abuse, if we started seeing a couple games with 30 votes, I think that'd be an indication of an issue.

For tiebreakers we should use the "I think _______ owner would win in a fight because _________" instead of ties. I'm 70% serious here.

[ny92mike]

14 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

Because a number of owners, myself included, would probably step away if it became a sim.

So just personal preference.  I did see a number of owners in favor of it, but I get where you're coming from replacing the writeups with a sim would be a major change to what bdl is.

14 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

As for the potential for abuse, if we started seeing a couple games with 30 votes, I think that'd be an indication of an issue.

It only takes one vote.  I think it would be harder to monitor than what you're suggesting.  

[EaglesPeteC]

13 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

For tiebreakers we should use the "I think _______ owner would win in a fight because _________" instead of ties. I'm 70% serious here.

Then I win all tie breakers because I assume you are all skinny little dweebs

[Scoundrel]

14 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

For tiebreakers we should use the "I think _______ owner would win in a fight because _________" instead of ties. I'm 70% serious here.

What about teams that have two owners? Like a 2v1 thing? 

[MWil23]

Just now, EaglesPeteC said:

Then I win all tie breakers because I assume you are all skinny little dweebs

5’10.5, 171 pounds. Not a dweeb. Big hands, big feet. You know what they say…2 out of 3 ain’t bad.

[MWil23]

1 minute ago, Scoundrel said:

What about teams that have two owners? Like a 2v1 thing? 

Competitive advantage…or perhaps liability depending. I can say poor @LAOJoe counting on RT and then being left alone.