Jakuvious Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 2 hours ago, Forge said: I feel like Defenders would have been much better had I been impressed with, or even believed that the Hand were a credible threat in the least during the show. I felt like they were a much more sinister threats in the Daredevil and Iron Fist series then they came across in this series. I didn't mind the heroes for the most part, but the bad guys kind of wrecked this one a bit. Agreed. They made a ton of missteps with the villain(s) in this series. I think the Hand in general just wasn't a good central group of villains for this group of heroes. Part of what makes the Hand intimidating in Daredevil and Iron Fist is that we have heroes who are primarily powerful due to their combat skills, and the Hand is a large group of villains that can match that, and collectively, exceed that. But with this group of four, there is no real situation where the Hand is ever a threat to Luke Cage, and if you want Jessica Jones to not be useless you have to really dumb down the Hand's combat proficiency (I really like the character, but she says it herself, she's the only one who doesn't know kung fu, and with her not being invulnerable, a low level member of the Hand should pretty comfortable be able to take her out.) So you have a core group of villains or henchmen or whatever that are useless against one hero and OP against another hero, so weird things have to be done to make that work (inconsistency in Elektra's power, lessening of the Hand's overall power, etc.) And then you add in that they tried to do, basically, 6 big bads in an 8 episode season, which waters down all of the major villains. Daredevil and Jessica Jones had excellent villains, in part because it was a steady climb to one very powerful, very intimidating villain. The Defenders started to do that, and acted like Alexandra was going to be that character, but she basically peaked as a villain in episode 3 or 4, had incredibly vague and poorly laid out long term goals, lacked the evil streak that a comic book villain needed, and died before she could really do anything meaningful to any of the heroes. And then they killed her off for a kind of villain with even vaguer goals and worse personality problems. Just missteps all around on the eviler side of the show. They really copied the mistakes from Luke Cage when it came to villains, and ignored most of what made Fisk or the Punisher or the Purple Man such compelling villains. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeEvans Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 7 hours ago, Forge said: I feel like Defenders would have been much better had I been impressed with, or even believed that the Hand were a credible threat in the least during the show. I felt like they were a much more sinister threats in the Daredevil and Iron Fist series then they came across in this series. I didn't mind the heroes for the most part, but the bad guys kind of wrecked this one a bit. I was just talking to my buddy at work about this and we said the same thing. The Hand doesn't do anything remotely impressive and didn't once make me think "wow, these guys are for real". They didn't once really pose a threat and the only thing that really went side ways for the heroes was being sabotaged by Stick. I didn't have any interest in them trying to obtain "the substance" and it didn't seem like "the ultimate weapon" that is Black Sky was any more imposing than regular Elektra in Season 2 of Daredevil. This whole season seemed more about the infighting between the heroes than them working together to defeat a dangerous threat. I agree with you and @devils1854 about Luke Cage the character and about the show. He is just so exceedingly bland in every single way, every line is just "I don't want to fight, I just want to protect the kids from the street" and the whole gentle giant thing is quite frankly annoying. The only person I hate more than him when he's on screen is Claire, I despise every single thing that comes out of her mouth and every second she is on screen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 (edited) On 8/21/2017 at 11:15 AM, Forge said: Reveal hidden contents Was I the only one who was disappointed with Alexandra? Did she do anything the entire season? For someone who was supposed to be the leader of the Hand, her greatest ability seemed to be able to get questioned by her fellow fingers. Her death was super anti climatic, and I felt like she was a complete waste as a villain, overall. The fingers themselves didn't seem to be all that impressive - Bakuto had some skills, obviously, and we have seen some of the stuff Gao can do (am I the only one hoping / thinking that she's still alive?), and Murikami did have a certain degree of creepiness with him, but I really got nothing from Alexandra whatsoever. Not only that, but the character was pretty much a watered down version of the way Wiilson Fisk was portrayed in Daredevil season 1. She sits around admiring fine art and classical music. There was nothing interesting about her character. Edited August 22, 2017 by MKnight82 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Doyle Rules Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Don't think there was ever a show that I wanted all side characters to die, they're just so stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeEvans Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, O'Doyle Rules said: Don't think there was ever a show that I wanted all side characters to die, they're just so stupid. I loved how Karen (the lawyer girl) was complaining about Matt becoming Daredevil again so he could save the city. She basically had zero case and still just kept complaining about it. The side characters took a major step back from their separate series and were indeed quite annoying and just completely wasted. Actually as I typed the "save the city" line it got me thinking, what was the Hand doing that exactly put the city in danger? Nothing about their plan was really endangering anyone unless I just completely blanked on a major plot piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Doyle Rules Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, LeeEvans said: I loved how Karen (the lawyer girl) was complaining about Matt becoming Daredevil again so he could save the city. She basically had zero case and still just kept complaining about it. The side characters took a major step back from their separate series and were indeed quite annoying and just completely wasted. Actually as I typed the "save the city" line it got me thinking, what was the Hand doing that exactly put the city in danger? Nothing about their plan was really endangering anyone unless I just completely blanked on a major plot piece. They remind of shows where someone has to sacrifice themselves to save thousands of people, and there's that one person who is always "no you can't, blah blah" better to just let everyone die instead of losing you. Not really sure besides somehow the city gets destroyed. Edited August 22, 2017 by O'Doyle Rules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeEvans Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, O'Doyle Rules said: They remind of shows where someone has to sacrifice themselves to save thousanda of people and there's that one person is like "no you can't blah blah" better to just let everyone die instead of losing you. Not really sure besides somehow the city gets destroyed. Man, this was just super poorly written huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Doyle Rules Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 5 minutes ago, LeeEvans said: Man, this was just super poorly written huh? Lmao my phone is constantly changing words when I type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 16 minutes ago, LeeEvans said: I loved how Karen (the lawyer girl) was complaining about Matt becoming Daredevil again so he could save the city. She basically had zero case and still just kept complaining about it. The side characters took a major step back from their separate series and were indeed quite annoying and just completely wasted. Actually as I typed the "save the city" line it got me thinking, what was the Hand doing that exactly put the city in danger? Nothing about their plan was really endangering anyone unless I just completely blanked on a major plot piece. Not going to lie...if they disclosed it, I missed it as well. Why did they need to or why were they going to destroy the city again? I have no idea. Are we to assume that it was basically collateral damage from trying to open the entrance if they couldn't get Danny? What was the purpose behind destroying it? And they never really disclosed what caused the tremors or anything, right? How the hand caused that minor earthquake...or why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeEvans Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 7 minutes ago, O'Doyle Rules said: Lmao my phone is constantly changing words when I type. I meant the show not your post haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeEvans Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 5 minutes ago, Forge said: Not going to lie...if they disclosed it, I missed it as well. Why did they need to or why were they going to destroy the city again? I have no idea. Are we to assume that it was basically collateral damage from trying to open the entrance if they couldn't get Danny? What was the purpose behind destroying it? And they never really disclosed what caused the tremors or anything, right? How the hand caused that minor earthquake...or why? That is basically what I assumed but even that didn't make a whole ton of sense. I don't know, everything about this show as just sloppy. It wasn't terrible but just pretty forgettable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Doyle Rules Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, LeeEvans said: I meant the show not your post haha. I thought so at first, but then I went back and realized my post wasn't written that good either. Edited August 22, 2017 by O'Doyle Rules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Doyle Rules Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 (edited) Were we suppose to buy into JJ taking on people that new Kung fu and being able to beat everyone. She just seemed out of place. About as believe able as Claire beating those two guys. Edited August 22, 2017 by O'Doyle Rules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knowledge Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Jessica Jones is by far the worst character of the bunch I hated her series and cringe every time i see her fight If it wasnt for Kilgrave her show would have been a disaster Iron Fist was much better in this show and the fight choreography was vastly improved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmad Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Knowledge said: Jessica Jones is by far the worst character of the bunch I hated her series and cringe every time i see her fight If it wasnt for Kilgrave her show would have been a disaster Iron Fist was much better in this show and the fight choreography was vastly improved Jessica is easily the 2nd best character behind Daredevil and it's not even close. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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