SkippyX Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 Just now, ronjon1990 said: Wins are a QB stat, and Jimmy G is up there with the best of them. @ET80 Its always been a dumb argument. When you look at QB stats you see wins. Its fact. Its like pretending the field is 50 yards long. Have fun with the delusion I guess? Now randos may have sad feelings about the QB wins stat but that's their personal struggle. The worst of those types believe they are always right about everything and anyone who disagrees with them on anything must be bad humans. They throw personal insults at you because you can read a QB stats page for example. Its kinda funny. They are smart in the Dunning Kruger style. (as in they pretend to know their IQ is higher than the IQ of other people posting on a website because the football gods have anointed their opinions) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 22 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said: Fair. But the Jets aren't a "Deebo" away from being even a playoff contender. They need all of the assets they can get to add talent to that roster. I think getting weapons for Zack Wilson is a priority, I wouldn't do it for a player like Deebo. Mike Evans, Keenan Allen, etc...sure. These are guys with huge catch radiuses, can win in man coverage, stretch the field, win jumpballs, etc. But Deebo excelled in this unique role that Shanahan carved out for him and I'm not sure it's something the Jets can replicate. Keep the picks. If Zach Wilson doesn't pan out it's going to set them back significantly, what's the best way to help him? Surround him with talent. We've seen it time and time again, young QB's take the next step after their paired with a top tier WR. It happened with Allen/Diggs, Dak/Cooper, Kyler/Hopkins. If they're going to take someone like Drake London/Jameson Williams at #10, what's more valuable? A combo of London/#38 or Deebo Samuel, All-Pro WR? lol The Jets offensive coordinator was previously the 49ers passing game coordinator and worked with Deebo during his first two seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar12 Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Forge said: Hopkins was sort of a weird outlier. Obviously there have been multiple receiver trades before and after that move and that value was an obscene outlier. Yeah BOB was wilding out when he traded Hopkins, can't really be used as the standard. Adams got traded for a 1st/2nd Hill got traded 1st/2nd/2 4ths/2 6ths Diggs got traded for a 1st/4th/5th/6th Cooper got traded for a 1st OBJ got traded for a 1st/3rd/Peppers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 The WR contract value panic is so overblown, imo. Only three of the top 20 highest paid WR's in the NFL got their deals in free agency. (Golladay, Kirk, Robinson) And none of their teams valued them enough to tag them or really emphasize signing them to a big deal. We've also seen that in a scenario that you cannot pay your top WR, you can get a kings ransom in draft capital if you decide to trade him. And in a worst case scenario you can just tag and trade like the Packers just did with Adams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStanRamFan Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 15 hours ago, NYRaider said: If Zach Wilson doesn't pan out it's going to set them back significantly, what's the best way to help him? Surround him with talent. We've seen it time and time again, young QB's take the next step after their paired with a top tier WR. It happened with Allen/Diggs, Dak/Cooper, Kyler/Hopkins. If they're going to take someone like Drake London/Jameson Williams at #10, what's more valuable? A combo of London/#38 or Deebo Samuel, All-Pro WR? lol The Jets offensive coordinator was previously the 49ers passing game coordinator and worked with Deebo during his first two seasons. What about Burrow/Chase? I'm all for getting Wilson a star WR to help his progression. I do not think Deebo is that guy. He's not that kind of WR to me. He's a luxury in an offense for how many ways he can be used, but all the WR's you named with QB's are better than Deebo and play much differently. Give me London/#38. Or trade back, accumulate more picks and take Jameson Williams. That team is bereft of talent and needs a full facelift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 1 hour ago, NYRaider said: The WR contract value panic is so overblown, imo. Only three of the top 20 highest paid WR's in the NFL got their deals in free agency. (Golladay, Kirk, Robinson) And none of their teams valued them enough to tag them or really emphasize signing them to a big deal. We've also seen that in a scenario that you cannot pay your top WR, you can get a kings ransom in draft capital if you decide to trade him. And in a worst case scenario you can just tag and trade like the Packers just did with Adams. Makes me wonder what MN will be doing with Jefferson next offseason. He’s an elite receiver and deserves every penny he’s about to get. But will MN value the position? This years draft could be telling if they go WR early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 2 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said: What about Burrow/Chase? I'm all for getting Wilson a star WR to help his progression. I do not think Deebo is that guy. He's not that kind of WR to me. He's a luxury in an offense for how many ways he can be used, but all the WR's you named with QB's are better than Deebo and play much differently. Give me London/#38. Or trade back, accumulate more picks and take Jameson Williams. That team is bereft of talent and needs a full facelift. Burrow definitely took a massive step up once he got to play with Chase. But that was also somewhat of an outlier situation because they already had great chemistry and Chase just had the greatest rookie season for a WR in modern NFL history. The Jets offensive coordinator was the 49ers passing game coordinator with Deebo during his first two years before he followed Salah to NY. I think that you're severely underrating Deebo's talent as a WR as well, he only had 59 carries last season. He was still 5th in the league in receiving yards and led the league in yards per reception despite having a few games where he wasn't even really used in the passing game. Zach Wilson's average air yards per throw was 7.6, Jimmy G's was 7.5. I think if you were to give him a guy like Deebo you'd take a lot of pressure off of him because you could just scheme the ball to Deebo in space. If anyone is going to be able to do it outside of SF, I'd assume their former passing game coordinator would have a chance, lol. They just drafted Elijah Moore last year who flashed at times and signed Corey Coleman to a pretty big deal. They don't need another average/above average WR, they need a true playmaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStanRamFan Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 1 minute ago, NYRaider said: Burrow definitely took a massive step up once he got to play with Chase. But that was also somewhat of an outlier situation because they already had great chemistry and Chase just had the greatest rookie season for a WR in modern NFL history. The Jets offensive coordinator was the 49ers passing game coordinator with Deebo during his first two years before he followed Salah to NY. I think that you're severely underrating Deebo's talent as a WR as well, he only had 59 carries last season. He was still 5th in the league in receiving yards and led the league in yards per reception despite having a few games where he wasn't even really used in the passing game. Zach Wilson's average air yards per throw was 7.6, Jimmy G's was 7.5. I think if you were to give him a guy like Deebo you'd take a lot of pressure off of him because you could just scheme the ball to Deebo in space. If anyone is going to be able to do it outside of SF, I'd assume their former passing game coordinator would have a chance, lol. They just drafted Elijah Moore last year who flashed at times and signed Corey Coleman to a pretty big deal. They don't need another average/above average WR, they need a true playmaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 10 minutes ago, vikingsrule said: Makes me wonder what MN will be doing with Jefferson next offseason. He’s an elite receiver and deserves every penny he’s about to get. But will MN value the position? This years draft could be telling if they go WR early. You still have him under control for 2 more seasons on his rookie deal and if you pick up his 5th year option it will be around $20M. Then you'd also have the ability to potentially franchise tag him so realistically you have him under control for 4 more years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 (edited) Just now, NYRaider said: You still have him under control for 2 more seasons on his rookie deal and if you pick up his 5th year option it will be around $20M. Then you'd also have the ability to potentially franchise tag him so realistically you have him under control for 4 more years. Can’t imagine he will show up if MN tries that. Typically MN negotiates in good faith and takes care of drafted players. Who knows with this FO though. Edited April 14, 2022 by vikingsrule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said: I'm sure Drake London and whoever they get in the 2nd will definitely be more impactful than Deebo could potentially be. The Jets have shown to be elite at identifying talent in the draft, lol. Free agency too, that Corey Coleman deal is looking stellar. The hit rate on 1st round WR's has also been bad historically too, but the Jets should be able to break that trend, lol. Edited April 14, 2022 by NYRaider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 1 minute ago, vikingsrule said: Can’t imagine he will show up if MN tries that. Typically MN negotiates in good faith and takes care of drafted players. Who knows with this FO though. He still has two years left on his original rookie deal either way though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 It will never cease to amaze me how much everyone overvalues draft picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStanRamFan Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 16 minutes ago, NYRaider said: I'm sure Drake London and whoever they get in the 2nd will definitely be more impactful than Deebo could potentially be. The Jets have shown to be elite at identifying talent in the draft, lol. Free agency too, that Corey Coleman deal is looking stellar. The hit rate on 1st round WR's has also been bad historically too, but the Jets should be able to break that trend, lol. I'm sure Percy Harvin on steroids and the "other LaFleur" can easily replicate the success we've seen under Shanahan in an offense that include George Kittle, a stable of capable RB's, and the best LT in the NFL. It's practically looking in a mirror. This will be a smooth transition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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