lavar703 Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 4 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said: They also don’t have his replacement on the roster and they don’t have a first round pick to use on one. They basically punted the position with no plan to replace him. I'm just blown away that somehow people believe we're going to get more out of Carson Wentz than Frank Reich could. Two organizations have now dumped him with much better pedigree than ours as of late. But yeah, this is the place that's going to turn things around for him. Okay 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted March 10, 2022 Author Share Posted March 10, 2022 9 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said: No defense of the player at all based on performance, but if you’ve agreed to a second restructure and then the team decides to cut you anyway……..we deserve the reputation we have at this point. I hadn't seen that part yet. I saw we asked for a 2nd and he said no? I've been at lunch though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted March 10, 2022 Author Share Posted March 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, lavar703 said: What? If you restructure his deal it more than likely means you aren't moving on. It doesn't mean they can't move on but it makes it more difficult. You said Quote That forces them to keep him beyond this season It doesn't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 10 minutes ago, MikeT14 said: I hadn't seen that part yet. I saw we asked for a 2nd and he said no? I've been at lunch though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted March 10, 2022 Author Share Posted March 10, 2022 2 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said: Right. So I am reading it as one restructure and then we asked for another and he said no. Not two? You're saying we asked for one then two then we adjusted after Wentz? I could see that I guess too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 10 minutes ago, MikeT14 said: You said It doesn't. It forces you to keep part of his dead money on the books as opposed to none at all. So my apologies, I misspoke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted March 10, 2022 Author Share Posted March 10, 2022 Just now, lavar703 said: It forces you to keep part of his dead money on the books as opposed to none at all. So my apologies, I misspoke. It does. But it isn't a back breaking amount (especially if the cap goes up and up every year). It frees up for the now, to kick the can down the road. @Thaiphoon's point is the easiest to do now and should be done in my opinion. It doesn't preclude kicking his *** to the turf in 2023 if he's a failure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, MikeT14 said: Right. So I am reading it as one restructure and then we asked for another and he said no. Not two? You're saying we asked for one then two then we adjusted after Wentz? I could see that I guess too. I’m taking that as we asked for a second one, and the amount changed after the Wentz trade. Either way, not a good look, especially for a guy who did suck it up and switched positions- with some knock-back that he had some public criticism to it as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted March 10, 2022 Author Share Posted March 10, 2022 Look, I'm trying to adapt to the situation. I made it crystal clear I hated the move yesterday, but it's done. Time to adapt and figure this out. I will admit that Wentz + a bounce back to 2020 D + a healthy Samuel is a team that is 2 wins better. If that's the case, we're a playoff team. Make the moves to get there. It's just the way it is now even if it's not the path I wanted to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 2 minutes ago, MikeT14 said: Look, I'm trying to adapt to the situation. I made it crystal clear I hated the move yesterday, but it's done. Time to adapt and figure this out. I will admit that Wentz + a bounce back to 2020 D + a healthy Samuel is a team that is 2 wins better. If that's the case, we're a playoff team. Make the moves to get there. It's just the way it is now even if it's not the path I wanted to do it. If this team wasn’t so inept, I would get it. As it is, I’m still processing what this means for my fandom, as I assume @lavar703and a few others are as well. Especially in the wake of our owner being slimy and the complete whiff they did rebranding this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e16bball Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, MikeT14 said: It does. But it isn't a back breaking amount (especially if the cap goes up and up every year). It frees up for the now, to kick the can down the road. @Thaiphoon's point is the easiest to do now and should be done in my opinion. It doesn't preclude kicking his *** to the turf in 2023 if he's a failure. It doesn’t preclude it. But it does make it more difficult, and whether you keep him or not, it creates more of a burden in 2023. And in 2024, if you decide to keep him longer. You can push back the extra burden (and the related cap limitations) again by doing the same trick, but each year you do it, you’re creating a bigger and bigger future problem. Eventually you reach a point where you can’t justify pushing it back any further. That’s how you end up as the Packers, getting bent over and humiliated by Aaron Rodgers. Or the Vikings, unable to win with Kirk Cousins but also unable to get rid of him. Or the Saints, with a really good roster but not capable of making the salary work for one of these top QBs. Or the Cowboys, potentially having to cut guys like Amari Cooper and Demarcus Lawrence. The bottom line is, there’s a realistic limit to the number of years you can just push everybody’s money back. Especially when you have to keep a significant portion of future cap set aside for guys like McLaurin and Young and Sweat. We can’t have our 2024 and 2025 books clogged up with a bunch of dead cap and pushed-back (now guaranteed) salary money for mediocre players. I want them to be aggressive in putting players around Wentz, to see if there’s any way we can salvage him. But restructuring and shoveling money down the road should be a last resort for a team that isn’t currently good. They should be as sparing with that as they possibly can. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e16bball Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 10 minutes ago, MikeT14 said: Look, I'm trying to adapt to the situation. I made it crystal clear I hated the move yesterday, but it's done. Time to adapt and figure this out. I will admit that Wentz + a bounce back to 2020 D + a healthy Samuel is a team that is 2 wins better. If that's the case, we're a playoff team. Make the moves to get there. It's just the way it is now even if it's not the path I wanted to do it. I would add a much easier schedule to your equation. With the right personnel moves, a 2-win improvement should really just be the baseline. Especially if the defense really does return to top 5 status. The two big regrets I have here are (a) feeling as though we gave up way more than we should have needed to and (b) feeling as though I’m not sure we can win BIG with this particular QB. But at the moment, we’re clearly lined up to do better than we did last season. And better than we did in 2020. That’s plenty of solace to take, although for me it’s lukewarm comfort because I don’t know that there’s THAT much joy in having a 9-10 win team that probably still can’t compete with the best. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted March 10, 2022 Author Share Posted March 10, 2022 3 minutes ago, e16bball said: It doesn’t preclude it. But it does make it more difficult, and whether you keep him or not, it creates more of a burden in 2023. And in 2024, if you decide to keep him longer. You can push back the extra burden (and the related cap limitations) again by doing the same trick, but each year you do it, you’re creating a bigger and bigger future problem. Eventually you reach a point where you can’t justify pushing it back any further. That’s how you end up as the Packers, getting bent over and humiliated by Aaron Rodgers. Or the Vikings, unable to win with Kirk Cousins but also unable to get rid of him. Or the Saints, with a really good roster but not capable of making the salary work for one of these top QBs. Or the Cowboys, potentially having to cut guys like Amari Cooper and Demarcus Lawrence. The bottom line is, there’s a realistic limit to the number of years you can just push everybody’s money back. Especially when you have to keep a significant portion of future cap set aside for guys like McLaurin and Young and Sweat. We can’t have our 2024 and 2025 books clogged up with a bunch of dead cap and pushed-back (now guaranteed) salary money for mediocre players. I want them to be aggressive in putting players around Wentz, to see if there’s any way we can salvage him. But restructuring and shoveling money down the road should be a last resort for a team that isn’t currently good. They should be as sparing with that as they possibly can. There is a breaking point. Absolutely. It'll depend on how active we are in FA, etc. Wentz, in a vacuum by itself, is not a major issue now. But you're right, it's not quite the sweeping under the rug either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted March 10, 2022 Author Share Posted March 10, 2022 Just now, e16bball said: I would add a much easier schedule to your equation. With the right personnel moves, a 2-win improvement should really just be the baseline. Especially if the defense really does return to top 5 status. Yep. That too! I only did 2 wins because the bare minimum seems appropriate for us. But 9-8 isn't an outlandish ask either. The 2022 squad should be better than the 2021 squad. Just now, e16bball said: The two big regrets I have here are (a) feeling as though we gave up way more than we should have needed to and (b) feeling as though I’m not sure we can win BIG with this particular QB. We did. 100%. And we probably can't. 100%. Just now, e16bball said: But at the moment, we’re clearly lined up to do better than we did last season. And better than we did in 2020. That’s plenty of solace to take, although for me it’s lukewarm comfort because I don’t know that there’s THAT much joy in having a 9-10 win team that probably still can’t compete with the best. We should be an annoying, competitive team next year. Should be. I can live with that for now and see where it takes us. It it fails? Blow up and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 1 hour ago, lavar703 said: That forces them to keep him beyond this season which if they were planning on doing so they wouldn't have agreed to take the trade at the current contract terms. The flaw in the thinking for many people is that Carson is only on a "1 year rental" simply because he has only salary and a roster bonus each of the next 3 seasons. Make no mistake, he's not here on a 1 year rental when you take on that contract and trade a 3rd and a 2nd (basically 2023 3rd is a 2nd). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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