MikeT14 Posted March 10, 2022 Author Share Posted March 10, 2022 We'll find out soon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Just now, Thaiphoon said: Correct. Only two. You can CUT them before June 1st. HOWEVER...IIRC...the cap "savings" for the current year are only applied AFTER June 1st. In either case, the cap savings are EXACTLY the same for pre vs post June 1st cuts. What we call "savings" is simply the allocation to THIS year vs the money being applied NEXT year. The net savings is EXACTLY the same pre or post June 1st. It's just an accounting gimmick to apply the money to this year's cap or next. I honestly don’t want them to do anything in free agency anyways so I don’t care. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Okay. Just googled this to see if I had misremembered on the June 1st cuts. I didn't. https://www.ganggreennation.com/2020/3/19/21186561/understanding-the-post-june-1-designation >>>>> "However, no matter when a player is cut, whether before or after June 1, if he is designated a June 1 cut the team cutting him does not realize any cap savings until after June 1. So a player cut in March but designated a June 1 cut remains on the books of the team cutting him for salary cap purposes even though he is free to sign with any other team immediately. The important thing to note here is that June 1 cuts, though they create more cap space in the current year than pre-June 1 cuts (at the expense of creating more dead money in the following year), do not create ANY cap space until after June 1, long after the free agent market for most of the best players has played out. Thus June 1 cuts, which are sometimes represented as an effective tool for creating extra cap space in free agency, are actually all but useless for that purpose, as you cannot access that cap space until after June 1. The only effective salary cap benefit of a June 1 cut is for use in signing draft picks and other late offseason transactions after a team has been tapped out in free agency. The main things to take away here: 1. The June 1 designation applies to both trades and cuts, but only cuts can get the designation early. Early June 1 designations are limited to two players per team. 2. The June 1 designation does indeed create extra cap space in the current year, but it does so at the expense of the following year’s cap, and the space it creates in the current year cannot be used until after June 1, rendering it all but useless for the purpose of signing free agents. 3. The net cap space created by a June 1 cut versus a pre-June 1 cut is ALWAYS the same; the only difference is in which year(s) the prorated bonus money is counted against the cap. Basically there’s no such thing as a free lunch. You can’t cheat the cap with a June 1 designation, you can just move around a limited amount of prorated bonus money. 4. Because the benefits of June 1 cuts are so limited, they are far more often discussed by fans than actually done by teams. There just isn’t a whole lot of benefit to a June 1 cut unless you need to create space to sign draft picks or free up space for a rare expensive unexpected late free agent opportunity." <<<<<< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceinthehouse Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Just now, Thaiphoon said: Okay. So we get cap relief then. When does the cap relief for that $12m get applied? After June 1st. So we miss out on FA and that also affects how we approach the draft. Still not a good scenario. Thai, it's not as bad as people are making it out to be. Cut & restructure some players we were probably going to do anyways like Flowers, Collins, etc. Extend some players we need to do as well like Payne, McLaurin, etc. Doing this will bring our cap back up. Not to mention we might possibly trade players away to relieve some cap & obtain draft choices. Plus, we could trade down in the draft & recoup what little picks we traded for Wentz & then some. If Wentz plays at a pro bowl level, we're going to be the team that made out like bandits. Trading 3rd Rd picks, while other teams we're trading 1st & 2nd Rd picks + players to get their QB. Not to mention, we can cut Wentz next season with no cap hit & get all that 28m back. It would be smart for us to draft a Rookie QB this draft, just for this reason alone. So he can learn the playbook & be ready to compete next yr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 4 minutes ago, MKnight82 said: I honestly don’t want them to do anything in free agency anyways so I don’t care. Okay then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted March 10, 2022 Author Share Posted March 10, 2022 4 minutes ago, MikeT14 said: We'll find out soon. Interesting. Sounds like we had something worked out and then the Wentz trade changed everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 2 minutes ago, aceinthehouse said: Thai, it's not as bad as people are making it out to be. Cut & restructure some players we were probably going to do anyways like Flowers, Collins, etc. Extend some players we need to do as well like Payne, McLaurin, etc. Doing this will bring our cap back up. Not to mention we might possibly trade players away to relieve some cap & obtain draft choices. Plus, we could trade down in the draft & recoup what little picks we traded for Wentz & then some. If Wentz plays at a pro bowl level, we're going to be the team that made out like bandits. Trading 3rd Rd picks, while other teams we're trading 1st & 2nd Rd picks + players to get their QB. Not to mention, we can cut Wentz next season with no cap hit & get all that 28m back. It would be smart for us to draft a Rookie QB this draft, just for this reason alone. So he can learn the playbook & be ready to compete next yr. Not sure what you're saying here. If we cut Wentz next season, we're not getting any money back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceinthehouse Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Read this link Thai...It explains how we can get all the money we need by moves we can make. https://www.hogshaven.com/2022/3/10/22970055/solving-the-commanders-salary-cap-issue-created-by-the-carson-wentz-trade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSkinGM Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 15 minutes ago, MKnight82 said: I honestly don’t want them to do anything in free agency anyways so I don’t care. I would like to get a legit MLB .. then I'd be good with F A . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 6 minutes ago, aceinthehouse said: Read this link Thai...It explains how we can get all the money we need by moves we can make. https://www.hogshaven.com/2022/3/10/22970055/solving-the-commanders-salary-cap-issue-created-by-the-carson-wentz-trade Uh yeah...that's literally been what I've been saying for the past 3 pages, Ace We convert his salary this year to a signing bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 3 minutes ago, RSkinGM said: I would like to get a legit MLB .. then I'd be good with F A . same. You get that MLB and then go WR at #11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceinthehouse Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Here, I'll post it. Solving the Commanders’ salary cap issue created by the Carson Wentz trade (I'll post the important stuff, but you might want to read the whole thing) After accounting for the Carson Wentz trade, OverTheCap estimates Washington’s remaining 2022 cap space at $5.9m. That number includes Deshazor Everett. Whether Everett ends up being cut, remains on the NFI list, or moves to the Commissioner’s Exempt List, I don’t see him counting against the Comz’ cap space this season, so I’m gonna add some money back and say the “adjusted” current cap space is around $7.3m. Paying for the 2022 draft picks Now, $7.3m in cap space is enough if you’re about to play your Week 1 game on Sunday, but it isn’t enough to pay for the draft class and be active in the free agent market. Over The Cap estimates that the Commanders’ 6 draft picks will eat up around $4.4m in cap space. We’ve heard reports over the past few weeks of the front office trying to rework Landon Collins’ deal or extend Ereck Flowers to create cap space, and there’s no reason for those efforts to stop. But the Commanders front office can do something else that can free up a lot of cap dollars instantly. $13m in cap space at the press of a button I know how the team can add $13m in cap space immediately without having to negotiate with anybody — and $13m in 2022 cap space would allow the team to do something meaningful to upgrade the roster in free agency next week. Without having to ask anyone, the Commanders front office can decide unilaterally to convert part of Carson Wentz’s 2022 base salary into signing bonus. Wentz gets the same money paid to him this year, so he’s happy. And it frees up immediate cap space that can be used to build the roster this season. Cap space isn’t an unsolvable issue for the Commanders. With the $7m available after adjusting for Deshazor Everett and $13m from a simple restructure of our new starting quarterback’s salary, the team could enter free agency with $20m in available cap space, which wouldn’t be so bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e16bball Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 13 hours ago, MacDog said: Clubhouse cancer means that when Wentz made his own personal decision not to get an experimental vaccine that was not properly tested, so many of his teammates liked and respected him that they followed suit, which PISSED off Reich and Irsay. Now I am not going to do a deep dive into that and the evidence that continues to come out on the topic but lets be clear what this label is all about. Wentz was not disliked by his teammates. (watch the Colts Hard Knicks episodes) Covid protocols have been removed for next season, so his vacc status will play zero role in anything except for people who are totally eaten up with the matter and want to make it a continuing issue. Going to try to avoid the COVID/vaccine stuff, as they prefer we do. As you noted, at the moment at least, vaccination status doesn’t seem to have much to do with a player’s likelihood of being available, under the current state of the protocols. That said, I think it’s vastly oversimplifying things to chalk the concerns about his personality/character/leadership up to nothing more than people disagreeing with his “personal decisions” re: the vaccine. There have been concerns filtering out about his makeup and presence as a locker room guy for years, well before 2020, way back when “Corona” was just a beer to drink at the beach. There was the story that’s making the rounds lately about him being mad at the team’s success while he was out injured and a teammate fighting him over it. There was all the stuff (that supposedly came from Alshon Jeffery) about what an ******* he is — lots of his teammates defended him at that point, but it was already still out there. It’s basically common knowledge at this point that he couldn’t handle Foles being on the roster “behind” him after winning the Super Bowl, and the same narrative was always there with regard to his dissatisfaction with PHI drafting Hurts. [Which raises the question of why PHI drafted Hurts in the first place. Hard to imagine KC or BUF using a 2nd round pick on a QB at this point, which I think gives a little more insight into how the Eagles viewed Wentz, even at that point]. He absolutely collapsed under the pressure of Hurts on the bench and an eroding OL in front of him in 2020. Hard to imagine a once highly regarded player being that bad, genuinely one of the worst QBs in the league. He was better in 2021, but again — collapsed under the pressure of two win-and-you’re-in games, including one against the lowly Jags. There’s a lot of smoke out there about his makeup. I think very little of it has to do with COVID. I guess one could try to come up with some complicated narrative where none of it’s his fault — but Occam’s Razor suggests that it’s probably just a situation where he is actually kinda abrasive, kinda fragile, and probably not made for the big moments. What I’ve heard about him over the years suggests to me that he’s a bit of a less friendly Kirk Cousins. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARTMONK HOF Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 14 minutes ago, RSkinGM said: I would like to get a legit MLB .. then I'd be good with F A . I agree but would want a Guard as well, then I’m fine and dandy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e16bball Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 38 minutes ago, MikeT14 said: Interesting. Sounds like we had something worked out and then the Wentz trade changed everything. Honestly, I’m a Landon Collins fan, but I’m okay with this. Collins was a much better WLB than Jamin Davis was last season, and probably much better than he’ll be this year too. But that kid needs time to play and an opportunity to see the field in that simplified role. If things click for him, they’ll have a very impactful defender under contract for a very affordable rate for several years. Keeping Collins — and blocking Davis — would have allowed them to field the best possible defense this season. But they made a major investment in Davis, because they believed in the traits and the character, and they should give that a real chance to succeed. Letting Collins go frees up those snaps for Davis and frees up a lot of cap space to invest in a true MLB or a FS, and in that way could actually help us address two positions longer-term. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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