Packfanfb's "Post Holy **** We Traded Davante" Mock

[Leader]

4 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

.....if the explanation is that MVS is too old, we might as well put Randall Cobb in the ground today.

Be sure to tell AR beforehand.

 

Edited March 21, 2022 by Leader

[Sandy]

14 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

1. Here you go, from the OP of the thread. 

2. Every post I've made about Lazard has indicated that his efficiency will go down with additional volume. But he was Rodgers most efficient target. 

+

MVS is 27. Jesus Christ, if the explanation is that MVS is too old, we might as well put Randall Cobb in the ground today. 

+

Sure, let me just look up all those above average NFL route runners who also have good hands in college. There's like 2 of them. Guys need time to grow regardless.

+

We had 5 WRs on the 2020 opening day roster. We had 6 in 2021, but they had to fit Malik Taylor in for specials. That's hardly a lock. 

Ok fair enough someone was saying he isn't good lol but most people here do see him for what he is, as a solid role player.

On MVS: 27 isn't too old to play football, but it's too late to reasonably expect him to suddenly break out. Some players figure it out late in their careers, but significantly more do not. Cobb at least is effective in his niche that he figured out before the end of his second season, even as his physical abilities diminish, his skills are still there.

On this year's draft class: This year happens to have a lot of players who fit that mold available in the first two rounds. That's why there's growing excitement for this draft at that position. It's a great year to get immediate contributors at the position. 

On opening with at least 6 WRs: Of MLFs three seasons, 2020 is the only year that we kept fewer than 6 WRs on opening day - which also happened to be the year we had to keep 3 QBs (cuz Love wasn't ready to be #2) and 4 RBs (one was out return specialist). Assuming we keep 2 and 3 at those positions respectively, and our return specialist is a WR, I see no way we start with less than 6.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Sandy

[Packerraymond]

13 minutes ago, Sandy said:

Ok fair enough someone was saying he isn't good lol but most people here do see him for what he is, as a solid role player.

On MVS: 27 isn't too old to play football, but it's too late to reasonably expect him to suddenly break out. Some players figure it out late in their careers, but significantly more do not. Cobb at least is effective in his niche that he figured out before the end of his second season, even as his physical abilities diminish, his skills are still there.

On this year's draft class: This year happens to have a lot of players who fit that mold available in the first two rounds. That's why there's growing excitement for this draft at that position. It's a great year to get immediate contributors at the position. 

On opening with at least 6 WRs: Of MLFs three seasons, 2020 is the only year that we kept fewer than 6 WRs on opening day - which also happened to be the year we had to keep 3 QBs (cuz Love wasn't ready to be #2) and 4 RBs (one was out return specialist). Assuming we keep 2 and 3 at those positions respectively, and our return specialist is a WR, I see no way we start with less than 6.

MVS hasn't found his niche and isn't effective in it? Your takes on our current WRs are just bad. MVS is a top 5 deep threat in the NFL.

All this is is a classic case of wanting what you don't have. Lazard and MVS are very good players for what we need them to be. Add in one more guy to that group and you have a really nice and balanced group of options for pass catchers.

[R T]

45 minutes ago, Sandy said:

Perhaps you're just not smart enough to see the impact that an early-pick WR or two can have in this offense.

 

Perhaps, but there is no perhaps with you when it comes to just not being smart enough. 

[R T]

15 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

MVS hasn't found his niche and isn't effective in it? Your takes on our current WRs are just bad. MVS is a top 5 deep threat in the NFL.

All this is is a classic case of wanting what you don't have. Lazard and MVS are very good players for what we need them to be. Add in one more guy to that group and you have a really nice and balanced group of options for pass catchers.

This is so right on. MLF's offense was not made to have one guy have all the targets. Having 3WR's with close to equal distribution is ideal for his scheme and Rodgers can be the ideal trigger man in that setup. All this WR panic is just silly.   

Edited March 21, 2022 by R T

[Sandy]

10 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

MVS hasn't found his niche and isn't effective in it? Your takes on our current WRs are just bad. MVS is a top 5 deep threat in the NFL.

All this is is a classic case of wanting what you don't have. Lazard and MVS are very good players for what we need them to be. Add in one more guy to that group and you have a really nice and balanced group of options for pass catchers.

I've seen no evidence that MVS is a top 5 deep threat. He can't track the deep ball. We need receivers who can catch the ball when it's delivered accurately. He's shown difficulty doing so. I really hope we don't end up bringing him back.

I agree Lazard is exactly who we need him to be. Cobb is too. We just need more role players like them and our offense could be even better than last season.

4 minutes ago, R T said:

Perhaps, but there is no perhaps with you when it comes to just not being smart enough. 

You had all morning and that was the best you could do?

[Packerraymond]

1 minute ago, Sandy said:

I've seen no evidence that MVS is a top 5 deep threat. He can't track the deep ball. We need receivers who can catch the ball when it's delivered accurately. He's shown difficulty doing so. I really hope we don't end up bringing him back.

I agree Lazard is exactly who we need him to be. Cobb is too. We just need more role players like them and our offense could be even better than last season.

There's been far more yardage lost via Aaron Rodgers than MVS in that connection.

[AlexGreen#20]

16 minutes ago, Sandy said:

Ok fair enough someone was saying he isn't good lol but most people here do see him for what he is, as a solid role player.

On MVS: 27 isn't too old to play football, but it's too late to reasonably expect him to suddenly break out. Some players figure it out late in their careers, but significantly more do not. Cobb at least is effective in his niche that he figured out before the end of his second season, even as his physical abilities diminish, his skills are still there.

On this year's draft class: This year happens to have a lot of players who fit that mold available in the first two rounds. That's why there's growing excitement for this draft at that position. It's a great year to get immediate contributors at the position. 

On opening with at least 6 WRs: Of MLFs three seasons, 2020 is the only year that we kept fewer than 6 WRs on opening day - which also happened to be the year we had to keep 3 QBs (cuz Love wasn't ready to be #2) and 4 RBs (one was out return specialist). Assuming we keep 2 and 3 at those positions respectively, and our return specialist is a WR, I see no way we start with less than 6.

Why is he only considered a solid role player, and why is it assumed that is his ceiling? If someone has incredible efficiency numbers on a low volume, that's indicative of a player who should be given a bigger role. 

Expecting MVS to "breakout" isn't likely, but expecting him to maintain or only have a moderate falloff of his efficiency on higher volume isn't insane. He had an 11.0 Y/Target in 2020 and he cut down on his drops. Rodgers just missed him constantly on deep balls this year. He missed him so frequently on deep balls this year that I have to assume that level of inaccuracy just isn't sustainable and there will be a regression towards the mean. 

Which players in this draft class are you seeing that are immediate high level contributors?

We had 6 in 2019, 5 in 2020, and 6 in 2021. Acting like having 6 in 2021 is a lock is crazy. If we get a PR/KR as a DB or RB, this absolutely could fall off to 5. I'm not saying it will, but it's far from a lock. 

[AlexGreen#20]

3 minutes ago, Sandy said:

I've seen no evidence that MVS is a top 5 deep threat. He can't track the deep ball. We need receivers who can catch the ball when it's delivered accurately. He's shown difficulty doing so. I really hope we don't end up bringing him back.

I agree Lazard is exactly who we need him to be. Cobb is too. We just need more role players like them and our offense could be even better than last season.

You had all morning and that was the best you could do?

He led the league in yards/reception last year? He led the league in 40+ yard receptions? He was second in the league in 1st Down % of WRs with more than 10 first downs. 

Had Rodgers not been ******* horrible throwing to him deep this year, he would have been right in the mix for those categories again.

[Old Guy]

4 minutes ago, Sandy said:

I've seen no evidence that MVS is a top 5 deep threat. He can't track the deep ball. We need receivers who can catch the ball when it's delivered accurately. He's shown difficulty doing so. I really hope we don't end up bringing him back.

 

How many drops did MVS have in 2021? ZERO! Look it up! 

So, like many young receivers he struggled coming out. Remember, he wasn't coming from a top 5 conference where he ran into guys with his ability. Of course, the learning curve was going to be a bit longer for him. 

I think we can fix the WR room with or without him. The one major PLUS he has going for him over ANYBODY else we bring in, a relationship with Rogers and apparently his trust. Talk about a guy who is ready to break out if we do bring him back, it's MVS!

[Striker]

14 minutes ago, Sandy said:

I've seen no evidence that MVS is a top 5 deep threat. He can't track the deep ball. We need receivers who can catch the ball when it's delivered accurately. He's shown difficulty doing so. I really hope we don't end up bringing him back.

MVS had 0 drops last season. His highest drop percent was 11 percent (last year) which looks to be the outlier vs. his other three seasons.

I also don't know how you couldn't see the improvement last season. More than anything, it's unfortunate that he suffered those nagging injuries (and that Rodgers missed him vs. SFO) because he would easily have had a career year.

[vegas492]

1 hour ago, Sandy said:

 

On this year's draft class: This year happens to have a lot of players who fit that mold available in the first two rounds. That's why there's growing excitement for this draft at that position. It's a great year to get immediate contributors at the position. 

 

Is it though?  Keep in mind, I've looked at virtually no film.  But....it looks like this is a fast draft class.  I don't see guys with size who are fast, and I'm failing to see anything with a shockingly good 3 cone score to go with a vertical and size.

Again, keep in mind I do not know this draft class.

Who is 6'1'' or bigger who ran a sub 4.45 40, with a 38+ inch vertical and a 3-cone under 6.9?  

Speed is the easy one to fall in love with.  I think @AlexGreen#20 has posted about 40 times not making the WR great.

It is suddenness in and out of breaks that make 'em good.  Explosion as compared to straight line 40 speed.

I don't feel like this is a great WR draft.  I don't see a Chase in there, or Jefferson or anyone like that.

But I do think it is deep with guy who have a couple elite traits, just not the whole package. 

Edited March 21, 2022 by vegas492

[vegas492]

48 minutes ago, R T said:

This is so right on. MLF's offense was not made to have one guy have all the targets. Having 3WR's with close to equal distribution is ideal for his scheme and Rodgers can be the ideal trigger man in that setup. All this WR panic is just silly.   

Well, label me as "silly" then.

Lazard, Cobb, Rodgers, Winfree, Taylor.  

That has to be the absolute worst WR corp in the league.  It needs help.  And it isn't coming from Cobb.  Label me as skeptical about Rodgers.  I think Winfree and Taylor have more of a shot at stepping up than Cobb does staying healthy or Rodgers amounting to anything.

We need to find 2 guys to pair with Lazard.  

[R T]

3 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Well, label me as "silly" then.

Lazard, Cobb, Rodgers, Winfree, Taylor.  

That has to be the absolute worst WR corp in the league.  It needs help.  And it isn't coming from Cobb.  Label me as skeptical about Rodgers.  I think Winfree and Taylor have more of a shot at stepping up than Cobb does staying healthy or Rodgers amounting to anything.

We need to find 2 guys to pair with Lazard.  

I've read way too many of your post and know you are smarter then to think that is the WR room going to training camp no less the regular season. The 90-man TC roster will have 11 or 12 WR's, not 7 (you left out Blair and Gafford). The Packers are going to add several WR's in the next couple of months because that is what they do. Among those 4 or 5 will be a few keepers, so yes, all the panic is silly.     

[AlexGreen#20]

16 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Well, label me as "silly" then.

Lazard, Cobb, Rodgers, Winfree, Taylor.  

That has to be the absolute worst WR corp in the league.  It needs help.  And it isn't coming from Cobb.  Label me as skeptical about Rodgers.  I think Winfree and Taylor have more of a shot at stepping up than Cobb does staying healthy or Rodgers amounting to anything.

We need to find 2 guys to pair with Lazard.  

I don't think anybody disagrees with that.

The WR panic is in reference to those that believe we need to break the bank in FA and draft a ton of guys.